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Old 12-11-2007, 01:55 AM   #16
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Originally posted by phillyfan26
I think his point is that, in a lot of cases, they don't.
Exactly.

So apparently in this case she was a retired cop. Good thing.

But most security guards are just someone looking for a job. Most often their background checks aren't any different from a retail job.

It takes a lot to have a job where you handle a gun and to be able to keep your personal life in check. Cops, FBI, CIA, etc. these are hard lives, emotionally and physically. It takes a certain type of person, and even then some people slip through the cracks. I.E. their personal prejudices get in the way. Or sometimes just their personal lives take over and rage can be taken out on someone that doesn't deserve it. Now for the most part, this doesn't happen.

But security guards? It's not like that. Yes, there are some experienced guards, and there are some that do this because they are serious about a future in the PD or whatever. But way too many are just people who need a job that takes very little experience. I don't want my kids educated by a university that isn't passionate about education, and I definately don't want my kids "protected" by someone whose just there because it's the only job he could get, he couldn't hold down other jobs, and now he has a gun and can use it.
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Old 12-11-2007, 03:21 AM   #17
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I'm not keen on armed security guards as opposed to armed campus police either; however, there are some limits on how much say colleges have in the matter. Nowadays the overwhelming majority of public colleges and universities have actual police, who are usually armed. But for private colleges I think that figure is only about half, and many states won't allow regular police to work for private schools, no matter how serious their crime problems might be. So they then wind up spending twice as much of their operating budget on people with only a third or a fourth as much training.
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Old 12-11-2007, 06:00 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland

Apparently the security guard was a retired policewoman.
A key factor, I'd say.

You know I really don't have a problem with trained professionals carrying weapons (even if they're off duty or retired).

My stance on gun control has more to do with the fact that any untrained yokel can go down to Wal-Mart and arm himself. I'm more concerned about the people that have ridiculous visions of themselves "taking down the bad guys" just like in the movies.

To suggest that the actions of this security guard is some kind of argument against gun control isn't very compelling.
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Old 12-11-2007, 08:55 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean
A key factor, I'd say.

You know I really don't have a problem with trained professionals carrying weapons (even if they're off duty or retired).

My stance on gun control has more to do with the fact that any untrained yokel can go down to Wal-Mart and arm himself. I'm more concerned about the people that have ridiculous visions of themselves "taking down the bad guys" just like in the movies.

To suggest that the actions of this security guard is some kind of argument against gun control isn't very compelling.
Agreed.
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Old 12-11-2007, 03:56 PM   #20
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abcnews.com

Security Guard Who Confronted Gunman in Colorado Megachurch Part of a Growing Trend
By MARCUS BARAM

Dec. 11, 2007 —

Volunteer security guards like the woman who confronted the gunman at the New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colo., this weekend are part of a growing trend at houses of worship around the country.

More of the country's 1,200 megachurches places that attract more than 2,000 parishioners per week are hiring guards or assigning armed parishioners to patrol, according to insurance executives and church officials.

"We urge every church to form a security and safety team," said Eric Spacek, the senior church risk manager at the GuideOne Center for Risk Management, which advices houses of worship on security procedures.

"Some churches have their own volunteers doing security, some contract it out to a security company, others hire their own guards like off-duty cops. We see controlled access, keyless entry doors, video surveillance and other measures taken by congregations."

Yet, violence remains a small part of claims made to the firm, according to Spacek. Five percent of church claims are crime-related and of those 80 percent are for theft and burglary with less than 1 percent related to violence on church property.

Jeanne Assam, a former cop in Minnesota, killed Matthew Murray, 24, in the hallway of the New Life Church, Sunday. The 42-year-old parishioner was hailed as a hero by the church's senior pastor, the Rev. Brady Boyd. "She probably saved over a hundred lives," Boyd said, adding that Assam had used her personal weapon.

Normally, Assam was Boyd's personal security guard but due to reports of the shooting at a Christian ministry near Denver earlier in the day that left two dead, she was reassigned and stationed in a rotunda of the church.

"That's the reality of our world," Boyd told reporters Monday. "I don't think any of us grew up in churches where that was a reality, but today it is."

The stationing of an armed guard and the presence of a few dozen other guards patrolling the church, which contained 7,000 congregants at the time, helped prevent a bigger tragedy, according to experts in church security.

"They handled it real well," said Chuck Chadwick, the founder of the National Association of Church Security & Safety Management. "So thankful that they had the foresight to have armed people there. It's a Godsend this happened, that she was able to head it off."

Chadwick says that he was working in corporate security when the Dallas-based Fellowship Church recruited him soon after Sept. 11 to help protect its congregation. Over the next few years, as the church grew from 6,000 to 20,000 congregants a weekend, Chadwick started meeting with a few other local church security experts to trade ideas. He eventually formed the Gatekeepers Alliance, which has since been renamed to NACSSM.

Over the last few years, his membership has mushroomed and now includes 230 churches around the country. Chadwick has also formed his own company, Gatekeepers Security Services, which provides licensed guards and video surveillance to more than a dozen churches in Texas.

"We think that any church that has at least a couple of thousand congregants a weekend should have at least one armed guard," said Chadwick, who says that some churches have been slow to take precautions because they feel that they're immune from violence.

Though churches are considered peaceful places of worship, they occasionally attract violence because they sometimes draw people who are troubled and prone to act out.

After a series of fires and burglaries at Baptist churches in Greenville, N.C., influential pastor Bishop T.D. Jakes organized an annual security conference three years ago to help churches deal with danger.

"It appears that evil and wickedness is abounding in an unprecedented way," Jakes said in a statement on his Web site announcing this year's conference. "It seems to be aimed at those of us who seek to do God's will. "

The conference also deals with other church-related crimes like embezzlement and child sexual abuse.

The government has also stepped in with the U.S. Homeland Security Department recently creating a grant program of nearly $50 million to improve security for religious and secular nonprofits considered at risk of terrorist attack.

And don't expect to see metal detectors in churches yet. "Unless a church gets blown up, we're not going to see that," said Chadwick.
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:11 PM   #21
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It really is kind of unnerving and ironic to see guns becoming a bit more common at churches, but it's their building, so...

Now there's a new twist to the story with the shooter-while he did get shot by the guard, apparently she wasn't the one who caused his actual death-he did that himself:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071211/...urch_shootings

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Old 12-11-2007, 04:20 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel

Now there's a new twist to the story with the shooter-while he did get shot by the guard, apparently she wasn't the one who caused his actual death-he did that himself:

Angela
are we splitting hairs, here


it seems to me that if she had not put him down
he would have went on with his 1000 rounds and killed a lot more people


don't you think he shot himself
only because he had been stopped be her??

if she was at the site of the first shooting
then he may not have had a chance to do the second
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:36 PM   #23
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I think you're right, had he not been stopped, who knows how much further it would've gone. I also think, though, that if he was that messed up, he would've shot himself eventually anyway, guard or no guard.

But ultimately I just shared that link simply because it was an update to the story. Not trying to split hairs or anything, really.

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