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View Poll Results: Which group are you closest to with your ideology?
Neoconservative 1 12.50%
Neoliberal 7 87.50%
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Old 07-27-2003, 09:34 AM   #1
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Are you a Neocon or a Neoliberal??

[Q]Preemption and use of force. Neocons believe that the United States must use a high-pressure approach to compel Arab regimes to change, by force if necessary. They argue that the region's problems are so great and the danger of another 9/11 so real—this time with chemical, biological or radiological weapons—that the end justifies the means. If the regimes of the region won't change, American power should be used to bring change about. The invasion and reconstruction of Iraq are not an exception but a precedent that, if need be, can and will be replicated elsewhere.

Neoliberals, among whom we number ourselves, believe in political preemption first and military preemption only as a last resort. We supported the wars on Afghanistan and Iraq because we concluded that force was the only way to lance these boils. But force will not work as a normal tool of policy or social engineering in the Middle East. Our goal must be to have the Arabs embrace democracy and modernization, not to force it down their throats. At present there really are only two political voices in the Arab world: One is the regimes and their cronies, the other the Islamic fundamentalists. We need to help foster alternatives. A growing number of Arabs are calling for these changes, and we must find ways to help them transform their societies even if it takes decades and not months.


Nation-building. Neocons don't like nation-building, and the Republican Party has largely opposed it for more than a decade. Thus, while neoconservatives talk of democracy promotion, they have a hard time carrying through on it. Nothing better exemplifies this than the administration's fits of attention deficit disorder when it is forced to promote democracy on the ground in ways that go against its own ideological instincts—as is evident today in both Afghanistan and Iraq. Neoliberals see nation-building as a strategic tool. Winning the peace is as important as winning the war, only harder. In Iraq it is particularly worth the commitment because a stable, prosperous and pluralist Iraq could eventually become a model for the region, demonstrating that it is possible to be both "Arab" and "democratic."


The Israeli-Palestinian peace process. Many neocons are skeptical about the peace process. While they rhetorically embrace the goal of Palestinian democracy as a key part of a two-state solution, they prefer to do nothing, excusing their inaction by insisting that Arab autocrats first convert to democracy. Neoliberals embrace the peace process as a priority both for the security of Israel and to open the door for a broader transformation of the region. As long as the Arab-Israeli conflict simmers, those opposed to change in the Arab world will use the pretext of an Israeli threat to avoid reform. Moreover, successfully brokering peace between Israel and the Arabs will enhance America's credibility as an advocate of democratic reform in the region.


Empire vs. leadership. Neocons talk about empire and American primacy as a legitimate goal. They eschew traditional alliances as burdensome and prefer ad hoc coalitions or simply going it alone. They believe might makes right and international rules and norms are there for the bad guys, not us. Neoliberals believe in leadership through persuasion and strong multilateral alliances. Transforming the Middle East will take decades of sustained political, economic and strategic cooperation. That requires revamping our alliances, not discarding them. We want America to inspire not only fear among our adversaries but admiration and support from our friends.[/Q]

http://www.brook.edu/views/op-ed/pollack/20030722.htm
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Old 07-27-2003, 09:38 AM   #2
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def not con
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Old 07-27-2003, 11:23 AM   #3
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I prefer the neoliberal ideas.
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Old 07-27-2003, 08:53 PM   #4
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Can't vote - but neither.
My MO is moderate to liberal democrat. I have moved more left in response to the neocons & rightwings in power, though I am really only lefty on 2 o 3 issues.
#1 Moderate Supreme Court Judges
#2 environment - I don't give a s**t what it costs you to give my children & grandchildren clean air & water (get rid of the SUV exemption please, and I could buy one as a business owner with a 25 grand deduction), because cars really haven't gone upn in price & actually dropped the last 3 years or so.
#2 Women's rights- includes affirmative action and choice.

A vision for a world order where peace and justice is a goal we all share.
That last one is the reason we will make sire Bush is freakin defeated in 2004.
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Old 07-27-2003, 10:18 PM   #5
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I'm actually not sure I'd call myself a "neoliberal" either. I'm moderate to liberal on most of the issues but I'm a pragmatist, too. I'm interested in figuring out what *works* while I work for peace and justice for everyone all over the globe. I'm pretty damned suspicious of political ideologies and creeds. I do prefer the neoliberal ideas to the neocons. I do *not* like the neoconservative ideas at all.
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Old 07-28-2003, 04:45 AM   #6
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Can't we have a neither of the above option?

I'm clearly not a neocon...for reasons that will be obvious to all FYMers. However I'm definitely not neoliberal either - neoliberalism represents the kind of agenda people like Thatcher and Blair advocate and I'm no fan of their ideas too.
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Old 07-28-2003, 05:44 AM   #7
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Blair IS Thatcher, in male drag.
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Old 07-28-2003, 05:52 AM   #8
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LOL...I wouldn't go *that* far, but his politics are certainly eerily close to hers. And there I was thinking I'd voted for a Labour government.
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Old 07-28-2003, 08:03 AM   #9
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Fizz....which are you closest to. I understand we are not all going to fit perfectly, but I found I did not fit where I thought I would after reading and rereading the bold and unbold above.
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Old 07-28-2003, 08:55 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Fizz....which are you closest to. I understand we are not all going to fit perfectly, but I found I did not fit where I thought I would after reading and rereading the bold and unbold above.
id say neoliberal if anything but outside of these confines i wouldnt ascribe to the total ideology.
it is this need for simplicity in my opinion that quashes a lot of independant thought and innovation in ideas.
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Old 07-28-2003, 10:05 AM   #11
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According to that table mr. Wolfowitz and Mr. rumsfeld are somewhat neo-liberal because they were pro nation building?

I guess someone who calls himself neo-liberal just decided that everyone who shares his mind is neoliberal and everyone who has the oposite opinion must be the "evil neoconservative"

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Old 07-30-2003, 08:16 PM   #12
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If I wanted to be difficult I'd suggest that neo-conservative and neo-liberal aren't too far removed from each other. New Labor is a fine example of neo-liberalism, and it's nothing more than Thatcherite economics dressed up with a kinder, gentler face. The Third Way is a furphy. (This long article I think gives a few good reasons why).

Admittedly I find the neo-conservatives scarier, as they are fundamentalists not pragmatists.
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Old 07-30-2003, 10:20 PM   #13
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I'm post-ideological. I'm disillusioned with both right now.

Mr. Wolfowitz and Mr. Rumsfeld are more aptly described as neo-conservative futurists--interested in building a nation that only conforms to "superior" American ideals.

Melon
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