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Old 10-02-2006, 05:34 PM   #61
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Originally posted by Golightly Grrl
I had it published in a school publication.
Thats really cool, it must be pretty good dude!
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Old 10-02-2006, 08:14 PM   #62
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As I was reading the thread, I was reminded of this quote from what I consider to be foremost in the "males as feminists" debate.

Judith: [on Stan's desire to be a mother] Here! I've got an idea: Suppose you agree that he can't actually have babies, not having a womb - which is nobody's fault, not even the Romans' - but that he can have the *right* to have babies.
Francis: Good idea, Judith. We shall fight the oppressors for your right to have babies, brother... sister, sorry.
Reg: What's the *point*?
Francis: What?
Reg: What's the point of fighting for his right to have babies, when he can't have babies?
Francis: It is symbolic of our struggle against oppression.
Reg: It's symbolic of his struggle against reality.
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Old 10-03-2006, 03:24 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally posted by nathan1977
As I was reading the thread, I was reminded of this quote from what I consider to be foremost in the "males as feminists" debate.

Judith: [on Stan's desire to be a mother] Here! I've got an idea: Suppose you agree that he can't actually have babies, not having a womb - which is nobody's fault, not even the Romans' - but that he can have the *right* to have babies.
Francis: Good idea, Judith. We shall fight the oppressors for your right to have babies, brother... sister, sorry.
Reg: What's the *point*?
Francis: What?
Reg: What's the point of fighting for his right to have babies, when he can't have babies?
Francis: It is symbolic of our struggle against oppression.
Reg: It's symbolic of his struggle against reality.
What's the context for this? And what's the point you're trying to make?
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Old 10-03-2006, 10:02 AM   #64
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I was going to ask the same question...
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Old 10-03-2006, 10:53 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally posted by nathan1977
As I was reading the thread, I was reminded of this quote from what I consider to be foremost in the "males as feminists" debate.

Judith: [on Stan's desire to be a mother] Here! I've got an idea: Suppose you agree that he can't actually have babies, not having a womb - which is nobody's fault, not even the Romans' - but that he can have the *right* to have babies.
Francis: Good idea, Judith. We shall fight the oppressors for your right to have babies, brother... sister, sorry.
Reg: What's the *point*?
Francis: What?
Reg: What's the point of fighting for his right to have babies, when he can't have babies?
Francis: It is symbolic of our struggle against oppression.
Reg: It's symbolic of his struggle against reality.
Isn't that out of monthy python?
Pretty funny in the film (if it is!)
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Old 10-03-2006, 05:14 PM   #66
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It's an example of what extreme male feminism may look like. I suppose, if you're looking for a deeper point, you could say, based on the scene, that any -ism, taken to an extreme, can lose its relationship to reality.

All hail Monty Python. "Life of Brian" is sheer genius.
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Old 10-03-2006, 05:25 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally posted by nathan1977
It's an example of what extreme male feminism may look like. I suppose, if you're looking for a deeper point, you could say, based on the scene, that any -ism, taken to an extreme, can lose its relationship to reality.

All hail Monty Python. "Life of Brian" is sheer genius.
I think you have to see it to really understand it, but its a good example and the life of brian is so brilliant!
You're right - anything can be taken too far. Like the feminists that believe any hetrosexual sex is wrong.. I personally think that isn't what feminism should be about. It should be about equality and pro choice!
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Old 10-08-2006, 10:26 AM   #68
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Originally posted by redhotswami
[B]Actually the danger right now is the current education system. It has been proven many times over that women & men do better in single sex classes. AND, research has also shown that the sooner the sexes are separated (like, in first level education), the better, due to the nature of the interactions between them./B]
Interesting thing to say about single-sex education, I wonder if you would mind me adding my two cents to it.

A little background on myself, I have gone to single sex schools all my life, my primary school was an all-boys catholic school, and so is my secondary school.

Now to my point you have said research shows that if the sexes are seperated they tend to do better in school, now I'm not going to try to dispute that but the point I want to make is that (at least in my school) whatever is gained from the students doing better in schools is balanced out by the way they treat the opposite sex. Single-sex schools give students they impression that the sexes should be seperated, and this seperation leads to one sex being very stereotypical of the other. The Most common idea for a girl in my school is a brainless slut or "bitch" as they are generally called.

I was talking to my friend from school last night and we ended up on this topic. Apparently he was talking to a new exchange student in the school from Portugal who is shocked by the way the guys act in our school. Compared to his home he thinks there is a complete lack of respect for girls who are generally seen here as just objects whose only use is for sex.

Now you may disagree with me but I think single-sex schools just led to one sex(especially men) growing up with a complete lack of respect for women.

Here's another example of the complete lack of respect shown towards women in my school. At a careers conference thing, there was a chart(or something my memory isn't too good) that showed the number of girls who answered yes, no, maybe etc. to the question if they would like to be a pilot, my friend say this chart and immediately laughed out loud and said the words "Women can't be pilots"

In short ,my point is single-sex schools are just breeding grounds for sexism.
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Old 10-08-2006, 07:41 PM   #69
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Thanks for your perspective on this. Not that any of this will affect me directly any more, I've been ambiguous on the topic of single sex education just for the reasons you've posted. The opposite sex becomes "The Other". I see some value in single sex and I see problems with it.

Where do we find the balance that serves both sexes fully?
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Old 10-08-2006, 08:20 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irishteen


Interesting thing to say about single-sex education, I wonder if you would mind me adding my two cents to it.

A little background on myself, I have gone to single sex schools all my life, my primary school was an all-boys catholic school, and so is my secondary school.

Now to my point you have said research shows that if the sexes are seperated they tend to do better in school, now I'm not going to try to dispute that but the point I want to make is that (at least in my school) whatever is gained from the students doing better in schools is balanced out by the way they treat the opposite sex. Single-sex schools give students they impression that the sexes should be seperated, and this seperation leads to one sex being very stereotypical of the other. The Most common idea for a girl in my school is a brainless slut or "bitch" as they are generally called.

I was talking to my friend from school last night and we ended up on this topic. Apparently he was talking to a new exchange student in the school from Portugal who is shocked by the way the guys act in our school. Compared to his home he thinks there is a complete lack of respect for girls who are generally seen here as just objects whose only use is for sex.

Now you may disagree with me but I think single-sex schools just led to one sex(especially men) growing up with a complete lack of respect for women.

Here's another example of the complete lack of respect shown towards women in my school. At a careers conference thing, there was a chart(or something my memory isn't too good) that showed the number of girls who answered yes, no, maybe etc. to the question if they would like to be a pilot, my friend say this chart and immediately laughed out loud and said the words "Women can't be pilots"

In short ,my point is single-sex schools are just breeding grounds for sexism.
That is a very good point! Honestly, the articles I've read, and the research I've explored, just stops at the academics. I was so concentrated on the academic results, I did not consider the implications single-sex education had on relations with the opposite sex.

And I have another example that validates your point. I'm biased, and I have seen first hand the successes of women attending single sex colleges. But on the same hand (and I am well aware of how hypocritical I am with this point), I have been appauled by the sexism I have seen with the students who attend(ed) single sex colleges for men.

Thank you for making your point, it was something I didn't consider. And now that I think about it, I do see some signs of sexism from my female students who attended single sex colleges.

Thanks for your insight, you've definitely made my head spin! ...and, you've given me an idea to research!!!
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Old 10-08-2006, 08:24 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonosSaint
Where do we find the balance that serves both sexes fully?
That is a very good question indeed. I too am not split on the issue. I want my students to be able to excelll and reach their potential by avoiding some of the tensions that occur between the sexes in the classroom. However, at the same time, I don't want them to believe that they are better than the other.

Plus, I don't think I want the separation of sexes in schools to become mainstream because we might run into the "separate but not equal" problem where one group is getting more privileges than the other.

my head hurts.
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