Are men feminists? - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-28-2006, 10:32 PM   #16
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
angelordevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Inside a sound
Posts: 5,827
Local Time: 01:05 PM
...I feel a thread merge coming on Either that, or a powerball/valium spin-off thread.


Quote:
Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic

I think that men can be feminists

Yes they can!

I once took a 'Women and Development' course at university...I was the lone guy in a class of 20. I guess at first it looked rather funny, and perhaps my motivation for taking the course was even questioned. However, I soon blended in, and I even ended up designing the t-shirts for a special project the class put together.

In parts of Africa, and around the world, it's the women who carry the load of family responsibilities on their shoulders. Why? Because the men simply aren't expected to. It's been this way for centuries. There's a lesson in that. Men should be feminists; they should be more aware of a woman's perspective, because such awareness ultimately sheds light on their own existence, as well as on any offspring that they helped bring into the world.
__________________

__________________
angelordevil is offline  
Old 09-29-2006, 12:24 AM   #17
New Yorker
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Perth, WA
Posts: 2,710
Local Time: 12:35 AM
I, too, find your comments somewhat perturbing, Anitram. You appear to be a very intelligent young woman and maybe it is your youth speaking, but to write off a percentage of the population given that they have made a choice to have children is archaic in the least.

Speaking from experience, I have found that those who take this viewpoint are often described, not only by other women but also by men, in the terms Angela Harlem has used.

I think, like in most other instances, be it war or even standing in line at the supermarket, a bit of COMPASSION and looking at a situation from another's viewpoint, makes life a lot better both individuals.

It is important to remember, that while one has a certain perspective of the world whilst childless, this can drastically change when or if the situation changes. Those people that are ignored/trampled upon/dismissed for their choices might just be the very people needed in these times.

I say this from experience. I have three children, I have all the qualifications and in my field there are only a few people who do my job. I can honestly say, I have never been denied any promotion or project opportunity because of my children. I am lucky enough to work from home. I actually find it refreshing that most of the males who I work with (99% at least) are more than happy to accommodate my family life and needs. Their argument is that if they can work around my family then they get a greater productive input from me.

I think that these times are much more enlightened and that maybe the word feminism is a little defunct.
__________________

__________________
Tania is offline  
Old 09-29-2006, 12:27 AM   #18
Jesus Online
 
Angela Harlem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: a glass castle
Posts: 30,163
Local Time: 03:35 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


Thanks for the patronizing comment.

Given that I've had 2 careers and both in the most male-dominated, competitive fields you could imagine, I never really thought about equal opportunity before. Never came up!
Good lord! It wasn't patronising. It was written after you gave that moot example of 2 women with different credentials being assessed differently as if my point all along has been 'to hell with experience and qualifications, just hand women whatever they want!' which is plainly not the case.

I'm quite sure you've faced discrimination, in your working life. Even the 3 weeks at uni has probably given you an idea of how rife it is in the legal professionn as well as research. I hope one day you can extend this understanding to working mothers. And that is not patronising, it's just the way it is.
__________________
<a href=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/angelaharlem/thPaul_Roos28.jpg target=_blank>http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...aul_Roos28.jpg</a>
Angela Harlem is offline  
Old 09-29-2006, 01:07 AM   #19
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,656
Local Time: 10:35 AM
If fighting for women's equal rights makes you a feminist, then I am a feminist. In the US women may have equal rights on paper for the most part, but in reality there is still a huge gap... And I will voice that until the gap is closed.
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 09-29-2006, 01:22 AM   #20
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 10:35 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
in reality there is still a huge gap... And I will voice that until the gap is closed.
__________________
INDY500 is offline  
Old 09-29-2006, 01:29 AM   #21
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,656
Local Time: 10:35 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by INDY500

I have the t-shirt...

But just for you, for I wouldn't want to let you down



__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 09-29-2006, 01:54 AM   #22
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 10:35 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

But just for you, for I wouldn't want to let you down
__________________
INDY500 is offline  
Old 09-29-2006, 02:16 AM   #23
pgv
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,979
Local Time: 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Tania



I say this from experience. I have three children, I have all the qualifications and in my field there are only a few people who do my job. I can honestly say, I have never been denied any promotion or project opportunity because of my children. I am lucky enough to work from home. I actually find it refreshing that most of the males who I work with (99% at least) are more than happy to accommodate my family life and needs. Their argument is that if they can work around my family then they get a greater productive input from me.
You have been rather lucky in your job and the people you work with. My mother was training to be a doctor, but as soon as she became pregnant with me (her first/only child) lots of doors closed - will she be expecting maternity leave? will she be wanting time off for the school holidays etc? My father who was in the same situation wasn't asked any of these questions, yet he was having a child too.
I honestly don't understand that, I know the mother is going through the birth/pregnancy, but surely its a joint experience and neither parent wants to miss out on? Or even, an experience neither parent will let interfere with their work?
Or is it still expected that women should stay at home with the child whilst men pursue a career?


Sorry that I started this thread, I didn't realise there was already one on the same topic
__________________
pgv is offline  
Old 09-29-2006, 05:38 AM   #24
New Yorker
 
the soul waits's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: belgium
Posts: 2,528
Local Time: 06:35 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
Feminisms' lack of definition is its major downfall. You've got individual men who will stand up for it and demand that women have equal rights, but you have a silent many who just dont care enough and allow the inequality to continue. You've then got the women who claim to be loyal to the feminist cause, but are anything but. They're the ones who really get on my tits. We had another thread in here, different to the one yolland linked to (I think), in which the topic of women in the child bearing age and workplace opportunities came up. That in particular, made me seeth. The general view among childless career minded women, that they were disadvantaged by the threat of mothers being given their opportunities, was unbelievably destructive, angering, and archaic. Is THIS what feminism is getting us? Indifferent male masses, and corporate/career slave bitche types fighting to keep the inequality?

Makes me bloody mad.

How many damn children you have is as irrelevent as your gender. Or sexuality. Or age. Or race. Or pet snakes' name.

In other words, men and women are as bad at true feminism as each other. There was a point in all that, lol.

Anna

Perfectly worded.
__________________
the soul waits is offline  
Old 09-29-2006, 07:54 AM   #25
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 02:35 AM
So the ability to give life is now considered an advantage, who knew?

The sexes are different and not equal but not one is superior.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 09-29-2006, 08:06 AM   #26
Refugee
 
TranceEnding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Melbourne, Aus
Posts: 1,124
Local Time: 03:35 AM
my sis says that women are often the worst misogynists

i like men who are in touch with their feminine side ... I think alot of (male) musicians (and creative types in general) generally are and that's why (some/most?!) women love them.
__________________
TranceEnding is offline  
Old 09-29-2006, 08:28 AM   #27
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 02:35 AM
I never quite understand what thats supposed to mean, in touch with emotions; it always seems like a SNAG is just the bloke who can flaunt it to hook up.

Maybe it is more a question of openness, but therein lies futility, thinking through love only leads to long and lonely nights.

Back to topic though isn't there a danger especially in shaping the education system to push to far one way to correct a problem until boys are put at a disadvantage? Of course the flip is that in this can result from the absense of good male teachers and the reasons that men don't become teachers which goes to what jobs society deems worthwhile so it can get a bit circular.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 09-29-2006, 09:33 AM   #28
Refugee
 
AliEnvy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,320
Local Time: 04:35 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
I never quite understand what thats supposed to mean,
It means they are generally more romantic in a true sense - not just the generic flowers and candlelight that gets them laid in the beginning.
__________________
AliEnvy is offline  
Old 09-29-2006, 10:27 AM   #29
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
redhotswami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Waiting for this madness to end.
Posts: 5,846
Local Time: 11:35 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Back to topic though isn't there a danger especially in shaping the education system to push to far one way to correct a problem until boys are put at a disadvantage?
I think I missed the post you are responding to...but are you referring to single sex education?

Actually the danger right now is the current education system. It has been proven many times over that women & men do better in single sex classes. AND, research has also shown that the sooner the sexes are separated (like, in first level education), the better, due to the nature of the interactions between them.

Now, reforming the system to promote SSEd might result in again a separate but equal problem...

Anyway, sadly it appears as though women's colleges may diminish. Many are at least considering going co-ed...and Randolph Macon Woman's College, one that definitely stood out, has ultimately decided to do so.

Oh and by the way, the english dictionary actually defines feminism as supporting equal rights (not just promotion of women), and is not limited to sex, but also includes race and others...I wasn't expecting that definition!
__________________
redhotswami is offline  
Old 09-29-2006, 10:32 AM   #30
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,474
Local Time: 11:35 AM
i was in a gender equity club in high school.

just sayin'.
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com