Are Americans unusually stupid???
- Thread starter Harry Vest
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deep
Blue Crack Addict
these types of loaded questions
and accusing them of clinging to religion out of bitterness
is not the way to win hearts and minds
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
financeguy
ONE love, blood, life
By comparison to whom? Russians put up with a lot more encroachments on personal liberty by comparison, as do Chinese. If we are going to argue that Americans are stupid, we would have to argue that Russians and Chinese are stupider.
Vincent Vega
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
financeguy said:
Not to forget the Italians, or the Germans time and time again.
Harry Vest
Refugee
financeguy said:
The big difference here is that they don't have so called FREE elections and Americans do. Huge difference actually. The fact that more people say they will vote for yet another Republican administration even after this last horrific one begs the question. Not to mention the Democrats not yet deciding on a nominee. You really have to wonder.
VintagePunk
Blue Crack Distributor
Harry Vest said:
The big difference here is that they don't have so called FREE elections and Americans do. Huge difference actually. The fact that more people say they will vote for yet another Republican administration even after this last horrific one begs the question. Not to mention the Democrats not yet deciding on a nominee. You really have to wonder.
Geez Harry, as a fellow Canadian, I've read some of your rantings regarding US politics of late, and I have to concur with some of the American posters, they're insulting and inflammatory.
The bottom line is, it's a democracy, and although you may not agree with the political leanings of some people, they do have the right to decide for themselves. Your name calling isn't helpful, nor does it lead to fruitful dialogue.
Harry Vest said:
The big difference here is that they don't have so called FREE elections and Americans do. Huge difference actually. The fact that more people say they will vote for yet another Republican administration even after this last horrific one begs the question. Not to mention the Democrats not yet deciding on a nominee. You really have to wonder.
Are Canadians from Winnipeg unusually condescending?
Harry Vest
Refugee
VintagePunk said:
What "name calling"???
I just posted an article from an AMERICAN writer and certain people are offended. Oh well, what can you do. Like you said, they do have the right to decide for themselves.
VintagePunk
Blue Crack Distributor
Harry Vest said:
The title of the thread. And it's not just this thread, it's many you have started or posted in lately that if not explicitly state, then strongly imply that 1) Republicans; and 2) Hillary supporters are idiots.
If you toned it back, you'd get better results and more discussion.
ETA - I now see that the title of the thread is taken from a line in the article, so, sorry for that. But I do stand by what I said about others posts being over-the-top.
financeguy
ONE love, blood, life
Met some Winnipegians at a conference a while back. Fine people. Drank a lot of whiskey.
VintagePunk
Blue Crack Distributor
financeguy said:
They're not bad people. They're just really, really cold for about 10 months of the year.
anitram said:
And the evidence builds...
onebloodonelife
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I'll take the bait...
Maybe.
At least I know that I'm not, seeing as when I was in eighth grade, I realized that President Bush was going into Iraq for the wrong reasons. I quite vividly remember in my geography class doing an exercise to compare Saddam Hussein to Kim Jong-Il and decide who was the greater threat to America. All but one group chose Kim Jong-Il. Perhaps we were just really intuitive eighth graders, or perhaps the rest of America was dumb. Oh, and something to keep in mind, I come from a small town of 5,000, fairly conservative.
In this town, there were plenty of redneck Republicans, and many who were just Republicans, yes there is a difference, go ahead and bash me for using redneck. Anyway, I was one of few outspoken very liberal people. I took to wearing a t-shirt from a band named Anti-Flag, which depicted President Bush with "international terrorist" across his head, and on the back had a protester holding up a sign that said, "Bush=Killer." For wearing that shirt, I took plenty of shit from fellow students. I was active in getting out the vote for Kerry/Edwards, etc. as a high schooler.
Here's a picture of that shirt:
As for Democrats this time around claiming that they'll vote for the Republican over the Democratic candidate they don't support, I think it's preposterous, and to be honest, I highly doubt any of those people will keep their word. I will personally be voting for either Hillary or Obama, whoever gets the nomination, though I am an Obama supporter. To be fair, I have said that if any Republican had to get into office, I would rather it's McCain (despite his insane 100 years in Iraq policy) because he's the Republican that scares me the least. But, be certain that come October, I'll be working for the Democrats non-stop.
Maybe.
At least I know that I'm not, seeing as when I was in eighth grade, I realized that President Bush was going into Iraq for the wrong reasons. I quite vividly remember in my geography class doing an exercise to compare Saddam Hussein to Kim Jong-Il and decide who was the greater threat to America. All but one group chose Kim Jong-Il. Perhaps we were just really intuitive eighth graders, or perhaps the rest of America was dumb. Oh, and something to keep in mind, I come from a small town of 5,000, fairly conservative.
In this town, there were plenty of redneck Republicans, and many who were just Republicans, yes there is a difference, go ahead and bash me for using redneck. Anyway, I was one of few outspoken very liberal people. I took to wearing a t-shirt from a band named Anti-Flag, which depicted President Bush with "international terrorist" across his head, and on the back had a protester holding up a sign that said, "Bush=Killer." For wearing that shirt, I took plenty of shit from fellow students. I was active in getting out the vote for Kerry/Edwards, etc. as a high schooler.
Here's a picture of that shirt:
As for Democrats this time around claiming that they'll vote for the Republican over the Democratic candidate they don't support, I think it's preposterous, and to be honest, I highly doubt any of those people will keep their word. I will personally be voting for either Hillary or Obama, whoever gets the nomination, though I am an Obama supporter. To be fair, I have said that if any Republican had to get into office, I would rather it's McCain (despite his insane 100 years in Iraq policy) because he's the Republican that scares me the least. But, be certain that come October, I'll be working for the Democrats non-stop.
Harry Vest said:
No. I'd say that they're usually stupid.
My general impression of most countries is that the average citizen is generally of below average intelligence and reasoning, and is just as apt to hysteria as "the Americans."
One lovely advantage that many governments are able to employ is that the U.S. is a wonderful target to scapegoat and deflect criticism. I'd like to see Canadians less concerned about the U.S., which they can't control, and more concerned about the fact that you have four major political parties...
1) Two of which have no chance of ever winning.
2) Two of which do, but are consistently ineffectual.
Or how about the state of Canadian capitalism? I'm embarrassed over your cell phone companies and banks. I'm shocked to see high prices for few minutes and things like "voice mail" are still charged separately (!), not to mention that your banks charge an average of $12 a month just have a checking account open. We may not be perfect, but we pay considerably less for most everything here than you do there, even if we consider the PST/GST difference. Hell, for such a large oil producer, how the hell do you end up paying at least $1 a gallon more than the U.S. at any given moment?
Take my advice. We have plenty of American citizens concerned about our presidency and the state of our government. I'd say that you're better off directing this energy to battling the deep-seated problems that are in Canada, and getting other Canadians concerned too. No country is perfect, after all.
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Re: Re: Are Americans unusually stupid???
I'm assuming you are counting the BQ as a major party which would be silly given that they are actually not a national party so of course they have no chance of getting elected. That isn't their goal anyway.
As for the ineffectual governing, that's pretty much true here, and probably everywhere else. You sometimes see some decent stuff done by a government in the majority, but usually it's the same old tired business (especially since one of our parties seems to be entitled to long runs and serves as the default).
I really have no idea what this is about since I pay nothing for my chequing account and I don't know anyone who does.
I'd venture a guess that the cell phone thing is probably true, although I have no idea about that either since I'm on a corporate plan and don't ever really think about the minutes. My brother pays $35/month for 200 daytime, unlimited evenings after 6 pm and unlimited weekends. This includes the other mandatory charges too. I don't know if this is a good deal compared to the US though.
To be fair, NAFTA sucks ass for Canadians when it comes to oil and the major beneficiary of that deal was the US, per usual. This is why I can't actually believe that either Dem candidate would bring it up, because frankly we'd WANT to re-negotiate and there is not a chance in hell that the Americans would agree to any of it given how patently unfair the current version is.
As an aside, I do wish Harry would give it a rest, because half of what he says has me embarrassed on his and my behalf.
melon said:
I'm assuming you are counting the BQ as a major party which would be silly given that they are actually not a national party so of course they have no chance of getting elected. That isn't their goal anyway.
As for the ineffectual governing, that's pretty much true here, and probably everywhere else. You sometimes see some decent stuff done by a government in the majority, but usually it's the same old tired business (especially since one of our parties seems to be entitled to long runs and serves as the default).
I really have no idea what this is about since I pay nothing for my chequing account and I don't know anyone who does.
I'd venture a guess that the cell phone thing is probably true, although I have no idea about that either since I'm on a corporate plan and don't ever really think about the minutes. My brother pays $35/month for 200 daytime, unlimited evenings after 6 pm and unlimited weekends. This includes the other mandatory charges too. I don't know if this is a good deal compared to the US though.
To be fair, NAFTA sucks ass for Canadians when it comes to oil and the major beneficiary of that deal was the US, per usual. This is why I can't actually believe that either Dem candidate would bring it up, because frankly we'd WANT to re-negotiate and there is not a chance in hell that the Americans would agree to any of it given how patently unfair the current version is.
As an aside, I do wish Harry would give it a rest, because half of what he says has me embarrassed on his and my behalf.
Re: Re: Re: Are Americans unusually stupid???
What bank do you use? I've priced out all your major banks--RBC, TD, Scotiabank, BMO, and CIBC--and every checking account states that it costs from $9 (Scotiabank) to around $12 (the rest) a month, just to have one open. And, yes, of the Canadians I know, they all pay it too.
Or do you carry the minimum balance to avoid the fees? Most of our checking accounts these days require no minimum balance at all.
I can't see entirely how NAFTA can be blamed here. Gas prices have been consistently much higher in Canada than in the U.S. for as long as I can remember...which predates NAFTA.
anitram said:I really have no idea what this is about since I pay nothing for my chequing account and I don't know anyone who does.
What bank do you use? I've priced out all your major banks--RBC, TD, Scotiabank, BMO, and CIBC--and every checking account states that it costs from $9 (Scotiabank) to around $12 (the rest) a month, just to have one open. And, yes, of the Canadians I know, they all pay it too.
Or do you carry the minimum balance to avoid the fees? Most of our checking accounts these days require no minimum balance at all.
I can't see entirely how NAFTA can be blamed here. Gas prices have been consistently much higher in Canada than in the U.S. for as long as I can remember...which predates NAFTA.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Are Americans unusually stupid???
I have TD. In the past I've had two types of accounts. The student account I had did not have any fees of any sort. The regular account (which I have now) requires me to keep a $1000 balance for the purpose of withdrawing $ from the debit machine. Without the minimum balance, I'm allowed 5 transactions per month and after that there is some sort of fee, I can't remember if it's $5 or $7 for unlimited usage. I have never had less than that in my account so I've never had to pay a fee. But that fee had nothing to do with my chequeing account. Neither my roommate, nor my parents, nor my brother pay any kind of chequing fee either, so this is really surprising to me to hear.
melon said:
I have TD. In the past I've had two types of accounts. The student account I had did not have any fees of any sort. The regular account (which I have now) requires me to keep a $1000 balance for the purpose of withdrawing $ from the debit machine. Without the minimum balance, I'm allowed 5 transactions per month and after that there is some sort of fee, I can't remember if it's $5 or $7 for unlimited usage. I have never had less than that in my account so I've never had to pay a fee. But that fee had nothing to do with my chequeing account. Neither my roommate, nor my parents, nor my brother pay any kind of chequing fee either, so this is really surprising to me to hear.
Re: Re: Re: Are Americans unusually stupid???
Our plans, on average, are around 450 daytime minutes, unlimited evenings and weekends after 9 pm, including voicemail, caller ID, nationwide long distance and roaming included for $39.99. Include taxes, and it ramps up to about $45 or so.
I'm on a legacy AT&T Wireless plan, where I had no extra charges Canadian long distance and roaming included for $10 more a month. My Canadian friends, on the other hand, pay more and get roaming charges the minute they leave the GTA.
anitram said:
Our plans, on average, are around 450 daytime minutes, unlimited evenings and weekends after 9 pm, including voicemail, caller ID, nationwide long distance and roaming included for $39.99. Include taxes, and it ramps up to about $45 or so.
I'm on a legacy AT&T Wireless plan, where I had no extra charges Canadian long distance and roaming included for $10 more a month. My Canadian friends, on the other hand, pay more and get roaming charges the minute they leave the GTA.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Are Americans unusually stupid???
I should point out that our checking accounts generally have no minimum balances and have always had unlimited transactions. I was shocked to see accounts with transaction limits and account fees.
I think the reason for my $12 a month figure is that that's what I priced for an account with unlimited transactions, which is what I'll probably need when I move to Canada later this year. I make a lot of transactions with my current bank account.
anitram said:
I should point out that our checking accounts generally have no minimum balances and have always had unlimited transactions. I was shocked to see accounts with transaction limits and account fees.
I think the reason for my $12 a month figure is that that's what I priced for an account with unlimited transactions, which is what I'll probably need when I move to Canada later this year. I make a lot of transactions with my current bank account.
ntalwar
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
Regarding gas prices-
Canada's gasoline taxes are 50-60 cents per gallon higher compared to the US.
Canada's gasoline taxes are 50-60 cents per gallon higher compared to the US.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Are Americans unusually stupid???
I must make 50+ per month and I have NO FEE. I've honestly never even heard of a fee and so the only thing I can surmise if one exists is that I've always been over the minimum limit as have the people I know...but in that case the limit must be awfully low given the financial state of some of them.
melon said:
I must make 50+ per month and I have NO FEE. I've honestly never even heard of a fee and so the only thing I can surmise if one exists is that I've always been over the minimum limit as have the people I know...but in that case the limit must be awfully low given the financial state of some of them.
VintagePunk
Blue Crack Distributor
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Are Americans unusually stupid???
I pay $10 per month banking fees, and while my transaction limits are high (I rarely carry cash, pay for almost everything with my debit card), they are limited.
As well, everyone I know pays in the range you're speaking of for fees, for various banks. In fact, my mom, a senior, was one of the ones who till just recently, had a special no-fee chequing account for seniors. She received a letter recently that they're doing away with the no fee for seniors thing, and they sent along a fee schedule for her perusal. Many banks used to also have no fee accounts for students, but my daughter and I shopped around at various banks last summer for an account for her, and all of them had fees for students.
You're also correct, our cell phone plans suck compared to yours, as well.
melon said:
I pay $10 per month banking fees, and while my transaction limits are high (I rarely carry cash, pay for almost everything with my debit card), they are limited.
As well, everyone I know pays in the range you're speaking of for fees, for various banks. In fact, my mom, a senior, was one of the ones who till just recently, had a special no-fee chequing account for seniors. She received a letter recently that they're doing away with the no fee for seniors thing, and they sent along a fee schedule for her perusal. Many banks used to also have no fee accounts for students, but my daughter and I shopped around at various banks last summer for an account for her, and all of them had fees for students.
You're also correct, our cell phone plans suck compared to yours, as well.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Are Americans unusually stupid???
It seems to me that the only time they're really giving you fee-free accounts for students is if you also have a student line of credit with them. I actually took out a LOC for $75K and then didn't charge a thing to it, but used my free account.
VintagePunk said:
It seems to me that the only time they're really giving you fee-free accounts for students is if you also have a student line of credit with them. I actually took out a LOC for $75K and then didn't charge a thing to it, but used my free account.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Are Americans unusually stupid???
In case I'm being completely daft here, here's where I got the figures:
http://www.tdcanadatrust.com/accounts/compare_chequing.jsp
At TD, the only free checking account I see here is for students and senior citizens over 60. Unlimited transactions start at $13 a month.
http://www.rbcroyalbank.com/RBC:SAf-s471JsUAKOD0XM4/products/deposits/banking-accounts.html
At RBC, I see that there is an ability to waive the monthly fee for the unlimited transaction account ("RBC No Limit Banking"), but only if you have an RBC investment account, an RBC credit card, and an RBC mortgage (how "generous" of them). Otherwise, it's $12 a month.
http://www.scotiabank.com/cda/content/0,1608,CID437_LIDen,00.html
At Scotiabank, it's pretty much just like TD. Unlimited transactions start at $10 a month.
http://www.cibc.ca/ca/chequing-savings/index.html
CIBC is the same. Unlimited starts at $13 a month.
http://www4.bmo.com/personal/0,4344,35649_36619,00.html
BMO is the same. Unlimited starts at $14 a month.
Please let me know if I'm somehow making an error in my research here, and I'll be glad to make a retraction here!
anitram said:I must make 50+ per month and I have NO FEE. I've honestly never even heard of a fee and so the only thing I can surmise if one exists is that I've always been over the minimum limit as have the people I know...but in that case the limit must be awfully low given the financial state of some of them.
In case I'm being completely daft here, here's where I got the figures:
http://www.tdcanadatrust.com/accounts/compare_chequing.jsp
At TD, the only free checking account I see here is for students and senior citizens over 60. Unlimited transactions start at $13 a month.
http://www.rbcroyalbank.com/RBC:SAf-s471JsUAKOD0XM4/products/deposits/banking-accounts.html
At RBC, I see that there is an ability to waive the monthly fee for the unlimited transaction account ("RBC No Limit Banking"), but only if you have an RBC investment account, an RBC credit card, and an RBC mortgage (how "generous" of them). Otherwise, it's $12 a month.
http://www.scotiabank.com/cda/content/0,1608,CID437_LIDen,00.html
At Scotiabank, it's pretty much just like TD. Unlimited transactions start at $10 a month.
http://www.cibc.ca/ca/chequing-savings/index.html
CIBC is the same. Unlimited starts at $13 a month.
http://www4.bmo.com/personal/0,4344,35649_36619,00.html
BMO is the same. Unlimited starts at $14 a month.
Please let me know if I'm somehow making an error in my research here, and I'll be glad to make a retraction here!
VintagePunk
Blue Crack Distributor
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Are Americans unusually stupid???
I know that RBC had no fee student accounts as recently as 2000 without a LOC. I opened one with them at that point, because the credit union I normally bank with didn't process government student loans. Within a year or two, processing was no longer done at banks anyway, so I went back to my credit union.
As of last summer, student banking fees are considerably lower than they are for non-students, in the range of $3 to $5, but all banks charge students for normal chequing accounts, now.
anitram said:
I know that RBC had no fee student accounts as recently as 2000 without a LOC. I opened one with them at that point, because the credit union I normally bank with didn't process government student loans. Within a year or two, processing was no longer done at banks anyway, so I went back to my credit union.
As of last summer, student banking fees are considerably lower than they are for non-students, in the range of $3 to $5, but all banks charge students for normal chequing accounts, now.
Yeah, but those are waived with a specified minimum balance, so they're technically not mandatory. I guess if you're under $1000 you're always SOL but then if you're over $3K you have no fees at all (and admittedly I fall in here and haven't really considered a monthly fee otherwise).
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Are Americans unusually stupid???
How greedy of them, particularly since it is well known that the Big Five Canadian banks are all flush with cash, and have been using it to finance acquisitions of U.S. banks, as of late. TD has probably been the most aggressive of the bunch, in this respect.
CIBC is probably the only one on shaky ground, because they had too much exposure to subprime investments and have very little foreign investment. Even then, it's hard to feel sorry for them.
VintagePunk said:
How greedy of them, particularly since it is well known that the Big Five Canadian banks are all flush with cash, and have been using it to finance acquisitions of U.S. banks, as of late. TD has probably been the most aggressive of the bunch, in this respect.
CIBC is probably the only one on shaky ground, because they had too much exposure to subprime investments and have very little foreign investment. Even then, it's hard to feel sorry for them.
Americans aren't stupid the media, the politicians and corporate CEOs think that we are. Americans can be patient and right now our patience is running out.
It's funny because I was discussing places that my son could get a job once he is finished with school and I told him that Canada would be a good idea (my son has dual citizenship Brit./ American).
Canada is rich with oil and water. One reason for NAFTA we want to steal Canada's water. Canada is our biggest trading company and they exported tons of gods to America before NAFTA. At least the products from Canada are safe and not made with slave labor like the Communist China goods.
Canadians have to have a great sense of humor since they live next door to a loud giant.
Oh dear I criticized my country now the thought police are going to get me!
It's funny because I was discussing places that my son could get a job once he is finished with school and I told him that Canada would be a good idea (my son has dual citizenship Brit./ American).
Canada is rich with oil and water. One reason for NAFTA we want to steal Canada's water. Canada is our biggest trading company and they exported tons of gods to America before NAFTA. At least the products from Canada are safe and not made with slave labor like the Communist China goods.
Canadians have to have a great sense of humor since they live next door to a loud giant.
Oh dear I criticized my country now the thought police are going to get me!
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