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Old 09-15-2007, 08:19 PM   #16
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Basically the United States wants to bully Canada into letting ships that are too big for the Panama Canal pass through for free, while they hold an occupied piece of land in a foreign nation (Panama) and charge ridiculous tolls for passing through their canal.

Bastards.
Not to nitpick, but Panama has been in charge of the Panama Canal since December 31, 1999, as a result of the Torrijos-Carter Treaties in 1977.

But the promise of free passage is probably a lot of their motivations, yes.
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Old 09-15-2007, 10:56 PM   #18
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Even if you don't care one way or another, that video is well worth watching simply for being one of the best documentaries I've seen in a long time.
It's seems as though the documentary did a great job of cherry picking its information to deliver its point, but I guess the music was nice.
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Old 09-15-2007, 11:00 PM   #19
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It's just meant to offer some grounded perspective on the issue. It offered about 10 times as much hard scientific data as An Inconvenient Truth, so that's worth quite a bit in itself.
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Old 09-16-2007, 12:10 AM   #20
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It offered about 10 times as much hard scientific data as An Inconvenient Truth, so that's worth quite a bit in itself.
Well, I'd certainly question that. Sure, all data can be manipulated to cater to a specific argument, but it's very important for anyone reading this to know that countless numbers of climatologists have discounted and dismissed this film's findings.
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Old 09-16-2007, 09:28 AM   #21
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It's just meant to offer some grounded perspective on the issue. It offered about 10 times as much hard scientific data as An Inconvenient Truth, so that's worth quite a bit in itself.
Offered up data yes, but the data is badly manipulated and anything countering their argument is left out. For example, their temperature graphs stop in 1980 or 1990, which makes it look like their was a greater temp increase in the 1920's-1940's than we're seeing today - that is just blatantly false. They chose to present it thay way. Granted, some of the ideas may have some truth in them (radical environmentalism, politicalization of the issue, etc), but I wouldn't formulate my stance on the issue based on that movie because the science isn't that good.
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Old 09-16-2007, 12:04 PM   #22
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Well, I'd certainly question that. Sure, all data can be manipulated to cater to a specific argument, but it's very important for anyone reading this to know that countless numbers of climatologists have discounted and dismissed this film's findings.
You are correct sir. Of course, this film is old news and has been discredited. Now that doesn't mean An Inconvenient Truth is gospel either but it's conclusions are certainly more sensible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gre...arming_Swindle
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Old 09-16-2007, 05:06 PM   #23
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Yeah, there's a big dispute brewing between Canada and the US.

I think there may be AIC (Al-Qaeda in Canada)

we better invade

better to fight them there
instead of here
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Old 09-16-2007, 05:09 PM   #24
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besides, we don't need any smelly polar bears

we can get some other mammal to hawk klondike bars
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Old 09-16-2007, 05:23 PM   #25
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I actually kinda meant I don't like reading about it because I want to live in ignorance about It was like the Bird Flu a few years that got really serious, or SARS, both of which went away.
Bird flu has not gone away. More people continue to die each year than the previous year, the fatality rate is about 80%, and it has proven to have already made the leap from bird-to-human transmission to human-to-human transmission. A pandemic remains a "not if but when" situation. Sorry I can't make you feel better about that!

Climate change is really scary. Your countryman Tim Flannery whom you mentioned will be speaking here this fall and I'm looking forward to seeing him. But I was also surprised to learn recently that he supports nuclear power as an alternative source of energy so I want to hear more about that from him because I wonder what he proposes in terms of nuclear waste.

I'm happy to report that the place I just moved into has solar panels and my first electric bill (which was only for 13 days) was only $5.
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Old 09-17-2007, 01:26 PM   #26
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It's Bush and Co's stupidity on the environment again. Damn.
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Old 09-22-2007, 04:03 PM   #27
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More issues about those glaciers melting and the Global Warming fears ...




Rising Seas Likely to Flood U.S. History
By SETH BORENSTEIN, AP Science Writer
3 hours ago


Ultimately, rising seas will likely swamp the first American settlement in Jamestown, Va., as well as the Florida launch pad that sent the first American into orbit, many climate scientists are predicting.

In about a century, some of the places that make America what it is may be slowly erased.

Global warming _ through a combination of melting glaciers, disappearing ice sheets and warmer waters expanding _ is expected to cause oceans to rise by one meter, or about 39 inches. It will happen regardless of any future actions to curb greenhouse gases, several leading scientists say. And it will reshape the nation.

Rising waters will lap at the foundations of old money Wall Street and the new money towers of Silicon Valley. They will swamp the locations of big city airports and major interstate highways.

Storm surges worsened by sea level rise will flood the waterfront getaways of rich politicians _ the Bushes' Kennebunkport and John Edwards' place on the Outer Banks. And gone will be many of the beaches in Texas and Florida favored by budget-conscious students on Spring Break.

That's the troubling outlook projected by coastal maps reviewed by The Associated Press. The maps, created by scientists at the University of Arizona, are based on data from the U.S. Geological Survey.

Few of the more than two dozen climate experts interviewed disagree with the one-meter projection. Some believe it could happen in 50 years, others say 100, and still others say 150.

Sea level rise is "the thing that I'm most concerned about as a scientist," says Benjamin Santer, a climate physicist at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in California.

"We're going to get a meter and there's nothing we can do about it," said University of Victoria climatologist Andrew Weaver, a lead author of the February report from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change in Paris. "It's going to happen no matter what _ the question is when."

Sea level rise "has consequences about where people live and what they care about," said Donald Boesch, a University of Maryland scientist who has studied the issue. "We're going to be into this big national debate about what we protect and at what cost."

This week, beginning with a meeting at the United Nations on Monday, world leaders will convene to talk about fighting global warming. At week's end, leaders will gather in Washington with President Bush.

Experts say that protecting America's coastlines would run well into the billions and not all spots could be saved.

And it's not just a rising ocean that is the problem. With it comes an even greater danger of storm surge, from hurricanes, winter storms and regular coastal storms, Boesch said. Sea level rise means higher and more frequent flooding from these extreme events, he said.

All told, one meter of sea level rise in just the lower 48 states would put about 25,000 square miles under water, according to Jonathan Overpeck, director of the Institute for the Study of Planet Earth at the University of Arizona. That's an area the size of West Virginia.

The amount of lost land is even greater when Hawaii and Alaska are included, Overpeck said.

The Environmental Protection Agency's calculation projects a land loss of about 22,000 square miles. The EPA, which studied only the Eastern and Gulf coasts, found that Louisiana, Florida, North Carolina, Texas and South Carolina would lose the most land. But even inland areas like Pennsylvania and the District of Columbia also have slivers of at-risk land, according to the EPA.

This past summer's flooding of subways in New York could become far more regular, even an everyday occurrence, with the projected sea rise, other scientists said. And New Orleans' Katrina experience and the daily loss of Louisiana wetlands _ which serve as a barrier that weakens hurricanes _ are previews of what's to come there.

Florida faces a serious public health risk from rising salt water tainting drinking water wells, said Joel Scheraga, the EPA's director of global change research. And the farm-rich San Joaquin Delta in California faces serious salt water flooding problems, other experts said.

"Sea level rise is going to have more general impact to the population and the infrastructure than almost anything else that I can think of," said S. Jeffress Williams, a U.S. Geological Survey coastal geologist in Woods Hole, Mass.

Even John Christy at the University of Alabama in Huntsville, a scientist often quoted by global warming skeptics, said he figures the seas will rise at least 16 inches by the end of the century. But he tells people to prepare for a rise of about three feet just in case.

Williams says it's "not unreasonable at all" to expect that much in 100 years. "We've had a third of a meter in the last century."

The change will be a gradual process, one that is so slow it will be easy to ignore for a while.

"It's like sticking your finger in a pot of water on a burner and you turn the heat on, Williams said. "You kind of get used to it."
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Old 09-27-2007, 10:02 PM   #28
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It's Bush and Co's stupidity on the environment again. Damn.
Well, partly, it is!

It's pretty much a known fact that many of the vocal scientists who dispute global warming get their funding (and fuel for their hot air) from oil companies! The irony! The horror! The stats are overwhelming, in the big picture. For every 100 climatologists, something like 98 are fully on-board with the reality of the issue. The other two? One is probably being paid, and the other is probably crazy.

CBC did a great documentary on this a few months ago called The Denial Machine. You can watch it in full here: http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/denialmachine/index.html It's also great because my dad just happened to do the sound recording for it.

There's no doubt in my mind about global warming. I try to do my very small part by driving a fuel efficient car. On days when it's not raining, I'll usually walk from work to meet up with friends who car pool. Along with that, perhaps the biggest thing everyone can do is lobby their political representatives for meaningful change across all levels of society. It really does make a difference.
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Old 09-27-2007, 10:16 PM   #29
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Suicide only makes you carbon neutral, killing more rich people actually helps the planet.
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