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Old 05-17-2002, 09:32 AM   #31
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I usually refer to Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr. as Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr. I do not recall referring to him as "Dr. Marin Luther King, Jr."

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Old 05-22-2002, 03:25 AM   #32
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Originally posted by gabrielvox:
There is no scripture that says that to be saved as a Christian one must believe that Jesus is God.
"...if you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." --Romans 10:9

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Old 05-22-2002, 05:32 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by MSU2mike:
"...if you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." --Romans 10:9

Precisely my point.

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Old 05-23-2002, 04:47 AM   #34
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Seems to me that it directly refutes your idea that the Bible doesn't say anything about us believing Jesus is indeed God.
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Old 05-23-2002, 09:47 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by MSU2mike:
Seems to me that it directly refutes your idea that the Bible doesn't say anything about us believing Jesus is indeed God.
What I believe Gabriel is trying to say (correct me if Im wrong) is that on the basis of that verse alone, the language is not exclusive. if you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." That says if you believe this, you will be saved, but it doesnt take the reverse and say if you dont then you cant be saved. Is this what you mean, Gabriel?

Btw, Im not agreeing with either of you here, Im just trying to clarify the point.
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Old 05-23-2002, 01:22 PM   #36
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Originally posted by sulawesigirl4:
What I believe Gabriel is trying to say (correct me if Im wrong) is that on the basis of that verse alone, the language is not exclusive. if you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." That says if you believe this, you will be saved, but it doesnt take the reverse and say if you dont then you cant be saved. Is this what you mean, Gabriel?

Btw, Im not agreeing with either of you here, Im just trying to clarify the point.
That's what I thought as well. And that, frankly, is an enormous stretch.
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Old 05-23-2002, 01:54 PM   #37
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Would you say that confessing that Jesus is Lord (not "LORD")is the same as confessing that Jesus is God? I assume that Gabriel doesn't equate the two.
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Old 05-23-2002, 02:52 PM   #38
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This is quite clear to me:

"I and the Father are One."

-John 10:30 (The Word of the Lord, thanks be to God)

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Old 05-23-2002, 04:07 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Bama:
This is quite clear to me:
"I and the Father are One."
-John 10:30 (The Word of the Lord, thanks be to God)
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Bible verses that show Jesus is God

The scriptures used here are from the New American Standard Bible.

John 1:1 - "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

John 1:14 - "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."

John 5:18 - "For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God."

John 8:24 - "I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins."
Note: In the Greek, "He" is not there.

John 8:58 - "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'"

Exodus 3:14 - "And God said to Moses, 'I AM WHO I AM'; and He said, Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, I AM has sent me to you."

John 10:30-33 - "I and the Father are one." 31The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."

John 20:28 - "Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

Col. 2:9 - "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form."

Phil. 2:5-8 - "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9Therefore also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, 11and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

Heb. 1:8 - "But of the Son He says, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom."

Quoted from Psalm 45:6, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Thy kingdom."

Jesus is worshipped - Jesus said to worship God only, yet He receives worship.

Matt. 4:10 - "Then Jesus *said to him, 'Begone, Satan! For it is written, "You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only.""

Matt. 2:2 - "Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star in the east, and have come to worship Him."

Matt. 2:11 - "And they came into the house and saw the Child with Mary His mother; and they fell down and worshiped Him; and opening their treasures they presented to Him gifts of gold and frankincense and myrrh."

Matt. 14:33 - "And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, "You are certainly Gods Son!"

Matt. 28:9 - "And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him."

John 9:35-38 - "Jesus heard that they had put him out; and finding him, He said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?" 36He answered and said, "And who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?" 37Jesus said to him, "You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you." 38 And he said, "Lord, I believe." And he worshiped Him."

Heb. 1:6 - "And when He again brings the first-born into the world, He says, 'And let all the angels of God worship Him.'"

Jesus is prayed to

Acts 7:55-60 - "But being full of the Holy Spirit, he gazed intently into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God; 56 and he said, "Behold, I see the heavens opened up and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God." 57But they cried out with a loud voice, and covered their ears, and they rushed upon him with one impulse. 58And when they had driven him out of the city, they began stoning him, and the witnesses laid aside their robes at the feet of a young man named Saul. 59And they went on stoning Stephen as he called upon the Lord and said, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!" 60And falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them!" And having said this, he fell asleep."

1 Cor. 1:1-2 - "Paul, called as an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother, 2to the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours." (The phrase, "to call upon the name of the Lord" is a phrase used to designate prayer.)

1 Kings 18:24 - "Then you call on the name of your god, and I will call on the name of the Lord, and the God who answers by fire, He is God." And all the people answered and said, "That is a good idea."

Zech. 13:9 - "And I will bring the third part through the fire, refine them as silver is refined, and test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, and I will answer them; I will say, They are My people, and they will say, The Lord is my God."

Rom. 10:13-14 - "for 'whoever will call upon the name of the Lord' will be saved." 14 How then shall they call upon Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him whom they have not heard?" (Paul is speaking of calling upon Jesus. (The phrase "Call upon the name of the Lord" is a quote from Joel 2:32).

Joel 2:32 - "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call." (LORD here is YHWH, the name of God as revealed in Exodus 3:14. Therefore, this quote, dealing with God Himself is attributed to Jesus.)

First and Last

Isaiah 44:6 - "Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides Me."

Rev. 1:17 - "Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, 18and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades."


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Old 05-23-2002, 04:33 PM   #40
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...and also:

"The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel --which means, "God with us."

-Matthew 1:23

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