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Old 09-14-2005, 05:08 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by popshopper


the NO disaster plan was to advise people to leave, and to get those who couldn't leave to the Superdome. Although this wasn't carried out particularly well, it was carried out a large degree. However, the Superdome was meant as a temporary shelter of last resort, and didn't have the food or water to last days. The plan I assume was to get the feds and the national guard in as soon as possible to evac the surviors to FEMA camps, but FEMA didn't seem to kick into action as they should've done after the Governor and the President declared a state of emergancy on the 28th. I think FEMA messed up, they weren't helped by inaction on a local or state level, but I believe that once the state of emergancy was called FEMA was placed in charge of the overall relief effort.
So it was part of the local governements job to tell them to go to the Super Dome AND bring with them a three days supply of food and water. That was the individuals responsibility.

The STATE stopped the RED CROSS from bringing in what was necessary for survival after three days. STOPPED the RED CROSS from bringing in the food & water. THE STATE...not the FEDS.....

Is there any chance that the FEDS (WHO I AGREE F'D up too) were further hampered because the STATE did not handle the SUPERDOME correctly?

And chance that the people living in St. Bernard Parish, who by all accounts watched helecopters flying to New Orleans......could have been saved, if NO was not turned into such a mess.
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Old 09-14-2005, 05:16 PM   #17
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I thought the problem with the buses, is that the Mayor had no authority over the drivers (who work for the school board) and most of the drivers had evacuated anyway.

Of course doesn't explain why they couldn't round up some other drivers, unless the buses belong to the school board as well and they were denying them access.

I think it's not the failure of the Mayor per se, but more the disaster plan which should clearly state the available resources and how to get them into play. Which is I suppose the Mayor responsibility ultimately.
It particularly concerns me.....

The evacuation plan here for the NUKE plant locally calls for buses, school, and public to come to evacuate us....

I am not usually a betting man....but I seriously wonder if the 11 schools in the town I work in would be evacuated.
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Old 09-14-2005, 06:45 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


So it was part of the local governements job to tell them to go to the Super Dome AND bring with them a three days supply of food and water. That was the individuals responsibility.

The STATE stopped the RED CROSS from bringing in what was necessary for survival after three days. STOPPED the RED CROSS from bringing in the food & water. THE STATE...not the FEDS.....

Is there any chance that the FEDS (WHO I AGREE F'D up too) were further hampered because the STATE did not handle the SUPERDOME correctly?

And chance that the people living in St. Bernard Parish, who by all accounts watched helecopters flying to New Orleans......could have been saved, if NO was not turned into such a mess.

It still doesn't explain why it took the FEDS until the 30th to up the ante by making the Katrina affected areas an "incident of national significance" which brings the full weight of the federal response to the table. According to their own national disaster plan, DHS should automatically make that determination when the president calls a state of emergency.

But you're right, the States (Mississipi as well, remember) messed up big time. The local level, I think most of the problems are with poor planning, local authorities while the first responders lack the resources to deal with something this big. Of course at the local level you have the problem of whatever resources the locals have are also affected by the disaster itself. I think it's fair to say most of the problems caused by the local authorities happened in the planning and pre-storm stage.
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Old 09-14-2005, 10:23 PM   #19
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I'm british with a US wife, so I don't really take much to do with US politics but I also note that the Republicans aren't putting the same scrutiny on the republican governors of Mississipi and Alabama which suffered similar failures in disaster response. Indeed Mississipi may end up with more confirmed fatalities.

What failures in disaster response are you speaking of in Alabama? I live here and, quite frankly, I haven't heard of any failures at the local, state or federal level here in this state. I will say that Alabama (and Florida) are quite experienced and well-rehearsed in dealing with hurricanes, and both states are above sea level. I've heard nothing but good things about Governor Riley's response. In fact, within two days of landfall, the state of Alabama was already sending aid and supplies on to Mississippi and Louisiana.

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Old 09-14-2005, 10:30 PM   #20
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yes but these facilities were not available before, during or immediately after the storm or the flooding.

Where were the evacuees meant to go????

Btw the Astrodome barely made the 5 day window from the initial invokation of the Stafford act.
Yes they were available.

And if not, all levels of government should have coordinated to provide inland shelters (away from the below-sea level conditions of New Orleans altogether). I do know that many shelters were open in Mississippi and Alabama the weekend prior to landfall.

It would have been reasonable to coordinate evacuations to Shreveport, Louisiana, Little Rock, Arkansas, Memphis, Tennessee, and Birmingham, Alabama (which did happen) to name only a few.

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Old 09-16-2005, 10:05 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by popshopper
I'm british with a US wife, so I don't really take much to do with US politics but I also note that the Republicans aren't putting the same scrutiny on the republican governors of Mississipi and Alabama which suffered similar failures in disaster response. Indeed Mississipi may end up with more confirmed fatalities.

Okay, well, I already asked you about this once in here but a good article appeared in today's BIRMINGHAM NEWS specifically relating to this and the way our Governor has handled the situation. There are some shocking things he did prior to landfall. Several friends of mine, Republican and Democratic, who didn't like Governor Riley a month ago, have given him accolades when I've spoken with them today. Have you heard differently about how he handled it?

Also, Dreadsox will appreciate the suggestion of Kimble Forrester, a typically liberal social activist here in Alabama, at the end of the article:

Quote:
Riley: What if Katrina hit head-on?
Friday, September 16, 2005
KIM CHANDLER
News staff writer
MONTGOMERY - When Category 4 Hurricane Dennis threatened the Alabama coast in July, Gov. Bob Riley ordered the mandatory evacuation of all of Mobile and most of Baldwin counties 48 hours ahead of landfall.

When Category 5 Hurricane Katrina threatened the Big Easy, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin issued a mandatory evacuation of the below-sea-level city 20 hours before landfall.


Dennis turned out to be not much worse than a severe summer thunderstorm for much of the coast. And Riley took a verbal beating as 500,000 people sat on jammed highways trying to return home.

Katrina, of course, turned out to be as catastrophic as feared, and local and federal officials are drawing criticism for what's being called a bungled preparation and response.

Riley said in an interview this week that he was satisfied with the state's response to Katrina. Many local officials in south Alabama say they also are pleased. But some - even Riley - are wondering how Alabama would have fared if Katrina had landed directly on us, instead of Mississippi and Louisiana.

After facing three monster hurricanes within a year's time - Ivan, Dennis and Katrina - Riley said state officials have learned lessons, and gotten better, with each response. When Katrina blew through, Riley said, "I think it worked beautifully."

Riley said the state prepared resources to move into storm-struck areas soon after the winds cleared. Alabama Emergency Management Agency director Bruce Baughman said the agency had arranged for 55,000 bags of ice, 164,000 gallons of water and 108,000 prepackaged meals.

Additionally, 450 National Guard soldiers were ready to go to Mobile and Baldwin counties to help with traffic and security.

Bayou La Batre, a fishing village in south Mobile County, received some of the worst damage in Alabama from Katrina. An estimated 800 structures were unlivable after the storm surge ripped inland.

In the days after the storm, Bayou La Batre Mayor Stan Wright said he was largely pleased with the state's response. Ice and water were delivered in the town within 48 hours of Katrina, although supplies were exhausted within hours. Also within days of the storm, there were plans to bring in modular trailers as temporary housing for the estimated 3,000 people with damaged or destroyed homes, he said.

After Hurricane Ivan, Atmore Mayor Howard Shell berated the state as his people sat without ice and water for three days while listening to radio reports about deliveries in coastal counties. By contrast, Shell said, state assistance has been quick with the last two storms.

"We've had excellent communications after Ivan. I've got to say it was a learning experience for a lot of us," Shell said.

State Health Officer Don Williamson said the state has improved in establishing and staffing shelters for the sick and infirm.

"We did a lot better. If you start with Ivan, we have done better with every response since Ivan," Williamson said.


Plan for nursing homes:

Some of the most horrific deaths from Katrina occurred in a New Orleans nursing home. Williamson said Alabama has relatively few nursing homes below Interstate 10, but he wants evacuation plans for those to be reviewed.

"I hope we would have done better than New Orleans appears to have done. But one of the reasons it looks like we did so well is because we were relatively spared," Williamson said.

Riley declined to compare Alabama's preparedness with Louisiana's and Mississippi's, but he defended his early evacuation order during Dennis in July.

"When we made that call on the evacuation the last time in Mobile, if it had gone into Mobile Bay, we would have seen the level of destruction that you see around Biloxi," Riley said.

Riley said he wants the state to run scenarios on what would happen if a Katrina-like storm hit Mobile and Baldwin counties dead-on.

"Let's say, `What if?' You've got to prepare for the worst contingencies," Riley said.

He is concerned about having adequate shelters in coastal counties for a Katrina-esque storm. "If we have a shortcoming right now, (it) is I don't have any level 4 or 5 shelters," Riley said.

Beginning with Ivan, Alabama put into use a plan to reverse traffic flow on Interstate 65 during an evacuation, so all lanes were headed northward. The plan worked for those who had cars, but some are concerned about those who don't.

"It seems to me that New Orleans really was a wake-up call. Shouldn't we have plans to load up city buses and schools buses to evacuate Mobile?" asked Kimble Forrister, state coordinator for Alabama Arise, an advocacy organization for the poor.


E-mail: kchandler@bhamnews.com
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Old 09-17-2005, 07:17 AM   #22
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Holy SHITE.... A liberal agreeing with me????

Clearly she must be an intelligent liberal....
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Old 09-17-2005, 07:18 AM   #23
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Having served at the port of Mobile during Desert Storm....

I was wondering what would have happened if Katrina made a direct hit there.
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Old 09-17-2005, 12:35 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Having served at the port of Mobile during Desert Storm....

I was wondering what would have happened if Katrina made a direct hit there.
The major difference between the Alabama, Florida, Mississippi and Texas Gulf Coast, compared specifically to NOLA, is that all of these states are above sea level, while much of NOLA is below sea level. Alabama and much of Florida have bays and sounds that serve as buffers and absorb much of the tidal surge.

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