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Old 01-07-2005, 01:59 PM   #16
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We have our "untouchables" here in America.
undocumented workers, illegal aliens, homeless are considered the Dalits by many.
Are they Dalits when you hire them? What is the basis for this statement?
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Old 01-07-2005, 02:00 PM   #17
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Well Ireland is nominally a Christian country, or used to be, but I would still consider it difficult, although not impossible, for someone born in impoverished circumstances to make something of their lives. I don't really have a definition of a Christian country to be honest.
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Old 01-07-2005, 02:02 PM   #18
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Originally posted by deep


We have our "untouchables" here in America.
undocumented workers, illegal aliens, homeless are considered the Dalits by many.
But they're not institnalized as such, I'm no expert in the Hindu caste system but that appears to be institutional, much as apartheid was.
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Old 01-07-2005, 02:14 PM   #19
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It is not, per se, institutionalized in America.

It is not exactly the same.


But we do- to an extend, have a caste system.

I believe Dalits are left to do the undesirable work, much as the undocumented workers do in America.

Yes they do work for me,
and I have given my treatment of them a lot of thought.

I always pay them what ever they ask, often a bit more.
I offer them water and soft drinks and let them use bathrooms on my properties, this may seem odd but they expect to be denied access to them.

Their cheap labor is a boon to me.
And all my friends that take advantage, some while railing against illegals.
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Old 01-07-2005, 02:22 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


No.


But for sake of discussion, what do you consider a "Christian country"?

United States of America
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Old 01-07-2005, 02:34 PM   #21
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Originally posted by tackleberry
United States of America
I bet a dozen separation of church and state people that we are not.
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Old 01-07-2005, 02:37 PM   #22
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I believe Dalits are left to do the undesirable work, much as the undocumented workers do in America.
Are they Dalits in their home countries, or when they elect to come here looking for the jobs offered to them?
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Old 01-07-2005, 02:41 PM   #23
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I bet a dozen separation of church and state people that we are not.
Thank God for that!
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Old 01-07-2005, 02:46 PM   #24
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Originally posted by deep
It is not, per se, institutionalized in America.

It is not exactly the same.


But we do- to an extend, have a caste system.

Not really, undocumented workers, illegals, whatever you want to call them come here of their own free will.

If they couldn't get in, the work would go to non-illegal workers, costs would go up, and we would pay more for our wine and food. I for one would be willign to do that, fewer people on welfare, more people paying income taxes, more money staying in the country as opposed to being sent back "home".
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Old 01-07-2005, 02:57 PM   #25
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Not really, undocumented workers, illegals, whatever you want to call them come here of their own free will.
I'm not sure how this matters, really. It seems perilously close to saying that whatever poor treatment they experience they bring upon themselves.
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Old 01-07-2005, 03:07 PM   #26
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The caste system is illegal in India...it was abolished in the '50s.

But like many historical/cultural beliefs held for thousands of years by a group of peoples (such as "ritual killings" of women), it's hard for governments to completely stamp them out.

I believe the Indian government has tried hard through land reform, education reform and public sector employment practices to bridge the caste divide, but it hasn't really been very successful.
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Old 01-07-2005, 03:15 PM   #27
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Originally posted by strannix


I'm not sure how this matters, really. It seems perilously close to saying that whatever poor treatment they experience they bring upon themselves.
Well, if you knew that sticking your hand in a fire was going to burn you would you do it ?

There is no shortage of info flowing back and forward across the border as to what to expect, no that doesn't excuse people from mistreatment, but illegals do come in here with their eyes wide open, many risk death to do so.
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Old 01-07-2005, 03:40 PM   #28
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Well, if you knew that sticking your hand in a fire was going to burn you would you do it ?
In the US, you sue the person who started the fire.
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Old 01-07-2005, 04:22 PM   #29
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In comparing the caste system to other society's views of class systems it is much different. When the British came to India during the 19th century there was much confusion about the caste system. To fully appreciate the caste system one must step away from European definitions and look at the system as a whole, including the religious beliefs that are an integral part of it. To the British, viewing the caste system from the outside and on a very superficial level, it appeared to be a unmovable system of social ordering that allowed the Brahmins, or the highest jati, to maintain their power over the other classes.

What the British failed to realize at the time was that Hindus existed in a different cosmological frame than they did. It wasn't really about social ranking. The concern of the true Hindu was not his ranking economically but rather his ability to regenerate on a higher plane of existence during each successive lifetime.

So comparisions are kind of difficult to make between what someone called earlier a Christian state of classes...they are foundationally different. One is social and the other has spiritual issues behind it...

My father has lived in India for the past five years and I have been there myself twice.... India still is a ways off depsite the modern governments efforts....
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Old 01-07-2005, 04:37 PM   #30
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In the US, you sue the person who started the fire.
Some lawyer somewhere just got an idea..........
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