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Old 06-18-2002, 08:49 PM   #16
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What melon said...oh and id also suggest to people, SHOP AROUND as much as you can...Ive been able to find places selling stuff perfectly legally but miles cheaper than anywhere else, little stores with lots of regular customers to keep them going.
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Old 06-18-2002, 10:01 PM   #17
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Pirated Software

Quote:
Originally posted by Zooropa


I completely agree!!!
I also AGREE!! Feeling guilty over that is a bit much.
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Old 06-18-2002, 10:14 PM   #18
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I agree with Martha and Spiral_Staircase, and I agree with the remedies offered up by Melon and brettig.

Despite what many of you may think, a lot of software out there was researched and developed by individuals whop put a lot of time and effort into it. They created it to sell to you as a service/product. It is THEIR work product, it is not something for you to photocopy. And some of it is made by small, local companies who truly depend on licensed sales for their income.

And another thing about this guy that Martha is dealing with: he offers to pass along theses extras for "cheap;" well, it sounds like he is charging something for pirated software, and that really crosses the line.

Where does this theory come from that stealing is only wrong if the victim is below a certain economic factor? For that matter, if a "wealthy" person or company is burglarized, should they be prohibited from reporting it to the police and filing charges?

I feel the same way about music; sure, I will trade live shows and commercially unavailable recordings for no monetary gain, but this is only for bands who approve of such practices. I will never sell such recordings. When a band puts out a new studio album in the retail sector, you are supposed to go to the music store and buy it if you want it. believe it or not, the artists DO get money off of each unit sold. I agree with Metallica on that whole front (though I do think the "industry" has increased prices too much; $18.98 for a new release is ridiculous- not that that is reason to steal it). Keep in mind that I have written music before and I consider it my artistic product, much as a software programmer should consider his/her software to be his/her work product.

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Old 06-18-2002, 10:20 PM   #19
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hath ye a moral problem with bootlegs? or burning music cds? same diff imo.
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Old 06-18-2002, 10:42 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lilly
hath ye a moral problem with bootlegs? or burning music cds? same diff imo.
only for bands who approve of such practices.
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Old 06-18-2002, 11:09 PM   #21
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cd

Quote:
Originally posted by brettig
What melon said...oh and id also suggest to people, SHOP AROUND as much as you can...Ive been able to find places selling stuff perfectly legally but miles cheaper than anywhere else, little stores with lots of regular customers to keep them going.
My words but a whisper your deafness a shout.
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Old 06-18-2002, 11:55 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lilly
hath ye a moral problem with bootlegs? or burning music cds? same diff imo.
Bootlegs are different than pirated stuff. Bootlegs are material which was never intended to be sold in the first place. Pirated stuff is a copy of the item that was sold. I expect to be paid for my work, and I expect to pay others for their work. No, I wouldn't buy a pirated copy of a cd, but I have no qualms about bootlegs.
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Old 06-19-2002, 12:56 AM   #23
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To all of those who have been dissing my initial reply to this thread, well it is all very well for you to have your opinions but let me ask you have you ever borrowed a tape, album or cd from a friend and recorded it???, have you ever taped a television show onto a videotape?? have you ever taped a song from the radio and do you have any mp3s on your computer?????? in my opinion this is all the same to some degree and like I said initially I would have no problem in paying for un-pirated software if it were cheaper, but hell no am I going to pay 500 bucks for office and add to Gates' empire when I can get a copy for free and sorry but I do see a difference in the notion of breaking into ones house and stealing all of their personal belongings compared to using pirated software, these are two very different forms of 'stealing' in my opinion and again just my two cents
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Old 06-19-2002, 01:24 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by OzAurora
To all of those who have been dissing my initial reply to this thread, well it is all very well for you to have your opinions but let me ask you have you ever borrowed a tape, album or cd from a friend and recorded it???, have you ever taped a television show onto a videotape?? have you ever taped a song from the radio and do you have any mp3s on your computer??????
There is a bit of a difference between what you list here and what happens with Napster and its many clones: in the legal parlance, it's called "fair use." In reality, it comes down to sheer numbers.

Pirated software/music (particularly through file-sharing systems) does not reduce to "letting a friend copy an album" but letting 50,000 friends copy an album. The details matter: it's one thing to let a friend borrow an album (one copy used by several people), another to let a friend copy an album (several copies used by several), and quite another indeed to put the album on a file-sharing system (THOUSANDS of copies used by THOUSANDS).

The first clearly falls under fair use, the second probably does, the third most certainly does not.

In a strict sense, all three cases can be considered stealing, but the first two seem minor by comparison: misdeamenors instead of grand theft. I know of no reasonable individual who will say that the third case is no worse than the first two.

The third case is like buying a pay-per-view event and airing it in a football stadium. Any sensible individual can see it is THEFT.

Quote:
in my opinion this is all the same to some degree and like I said initially I would have no problem in paying for un-pirated software if it were cheaper, but hell no am I going to pay 500 bucks for office and add to Gates' empire when I can get a copy for free and sorry but I do see a difference in the notion of breaking into ones house and stealing all of their personal belongings compared to using pirated software, these are two very different forms of 'stealing' in my opinion and again just my two cents
If it were cheaper... if it were cheaper...

You know, if Ferrari's were cheaper, I'd consider buying one. As it is, I can't afford one, so - LIKE THE REST OF THE WORLD - I do without.

Frankly, I don't see where the differences between B+E (breaking and entering) and pirating software ACTUALLY matter. They're not two different forms of "stealing" (in quotes). They are two different froms of STEALING, THEFT, BURGALRY - both immoral, and in both cases impermissible.

Of course, you're probably not in the music industry or in the software industry (I AM in software, by the way), so what the fuck do you care? You don't get hurt, so it's not immoral, right?
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Old 06-19-2002, 08:37 AM   #25
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OzAurora... You've just been Bubba'd.

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Old 06-19-2002, 08:57 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Achtung Bubba
Of course, you're probably not in the music industry or in the software industry (I AM in software, by the way), so what the fuck do you care? You don't get hurt, so it's not immoral, right?
you are right bubba.

but she is in school. as i'm sure you're aware, but have not considered, school's require you to have certain facilities to carry out your work. though tuition and various fees are paid many schools do not provide such things as specific software, especially off campus to their students.

as i'm sure you're also aware many times the pressures of daily life for a student prevent the individual from spending all their time at school working on said project.

so the student is left with little choice.

it's deeper than the surface bubba. and yes it does suck for everybody. go bug the little kids ripping pc games.
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Old 06-19-2002, 10:54 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by kobayashi

as i'm sure you're also aware many times the pressures of daily life for a student prevent the individual from spending all their time at school working on said project.

Oh.. The Poor Student.. Many schools provide software on their 'Network' server or even have Computer Clusters for those who cannot afford computers..

Hahahah...
You have now made this thread into the good ol' medical ethics dilemma of the husband breaking into the Pharmacy to steal the drug his Wife needs to live through the night due to the fact that he is unable to pay for it. Sooo.. does that make stealing OK??? I refer you to Leon Mertensotto.

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Old 06-19-2002, 11:01 AM   #28
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Must play devil's advocate to the "concert bootlegs are okay by me" people.

Why do you suppose it is that tapers feel the need to sneak their equipment into shows, even shows by bands that are reportedly/allegedly "bootleg friendly," such as U2?

I suppose what I'm getting at is that the shared file issue is probably not as clear cut as we'd like to believe.
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Old 06-19-2002, 11:04 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lemonite


Oh.. The Poor Student.. Many schools provide software on their 'Network' server or even have Computer Clusters for those who cannot afford computers..

Hahahah...
You have now made this thread into the good ol' medical ethics dilemma of the husband breaking into the Pharmacy to steal the drug his Wife needs to live through the night due to the fact that he is unable to pay for it. Sooo.. does that make stealing OK??? I refer you to Leon Mertensotto.

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i think you missed the point L. yes the schools provide software on their 'Network' as you call it but this is not accessible off campus of course because the logistics of that many licenses being issued are unfathomable. if i wanted to use SPSS 10.1 i would have to go to school but my father bought me a genuine copy and i also use it every day at work. i am lucky.

i never implied that any of this made stealing ok. the point is that in some cases the person doing the 'stealing' is under undue pressure also and everyone does what they need to do. if you can't afford the software are you going to perform poorly or facilitate a good mark?
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Old 06-19-2002, 11:48 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by kobayashi


i think you missed the point L. yes the schools provide software on their 'Network' as you call it but this is not accessible off campus of course because the logistics of that many licenses being issued are unfathomable.

Yes.. my statement does not apply to people out of school.. On Campus or Off Campus you can get into most Software Reservoirs that Schools have with just your student ID and password from any internet connection wherever one may be located.. Hence my ability to check my ND.Edu Email address even though I'm not "On Campus" anymores.. but this is just clarification maybe.. If it's irrelevant, then just ignore..

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