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Old 11-10-2005, 07:38 PM   #31
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Oh a good many things, abortion, gay rights, morality and law.
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Old 11-10-2005, 07:59 PM   #32
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Our commentariat does manage to effectively portray Americans as ignorant, gun loving, bible thumping, gay beating hicks who do nothing at all but get fat from fast food, get diabetes and sue anybody in sight.
As a child, the only real exposure I had to people living in the US was my family. They all live in Dallas, and they embody all of those stereotypes. Today, I can stand back and laugh at the comedy of it, but I grew up thinking all Americans were like that. It was only when I got older that I realised how wrong I was. It seems I was a painfully ignorant child.
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Old 11-10-2005, 08:01 PM   #33
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Oh a good many things, abortion, gay rights, morality and law.
ok

you made me laugh

add to your list

the Inquisition
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Old 11-10-2005, 08:03 PM   #34
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They are running one today?
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Old 11-10-2005, 08:10 PM   #35
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Oh a good many things, abortion, gay rights, morality and law.
Aren't you just swapping one generalization for another?
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Old 11-10-2005, 08:13 PM   #36
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Originally posted by Antilarry
A_wanderer, I wouldnt worry, youre the best walking advertisement america ever had.
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Originally posted by melon
You've certainly described the demographic that voted in Bush, that's for sure.
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Originally posted by deep
What do you have against Christians?
Come on guys, all of you are plenty articulate and informed enough to do better than that.

Why build bad will unnecessarily?
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Old 11-10-2005, 08:18 PM   #37
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"I'd like to say to the good citizens of Dover: if there is a disaster in your area, don't turn to God, you just rejected Him from your city," Robertson said on his daily television show broadcast from Virginia, "The 700 Club."

"And don't wonder why He hasn't helped you when problems begin, if they begin. I'm not saying they will, but if they do, just remember, you just voted God out of your city. And if that's the case, don't ask for His help because he might not be there," he said.

The 700 Club claims a daily audience of around one million. It is also broadcast around the world translated into more than 70 languages.

In voting on Tuesday, all eight Dover, Pennsylvania, school board members up for re-election lost their seats after trying to introduce "intelligent design" to high school science students as an alternative to the theory of evolution.
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Old 11-10-2005, 08:22 PM   #38
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Well im not going to get labelled racist for using a generalisation about Christians am I, they had a good run of social dominance so their fair game.

The hypocrisy is that I am right about mainstream post-Christian society and I could get away with calling Jesus a 'mad fucker' but would face all round condemnation if I said the same thing about Mohammed. I am all for equality ~ the equality of religions to be freely criticised or believed in without favour.

Same thing goes for ID, I mean honestly irreducible complexity is built on the concept that fundamental components like flagella are inherently perfect and were created to function ~ without a certain complex piece they would cease to function. But the rub is that it is always selective evidence that excludes more primative pieces.
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Old 11-10-2005, 08:29 PM   #39
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Well im not going to get labelled racist for using a generalisation about Christians am I, they had a good run of social dominance so their fair game.

The hypocrisy is that I am right about mainstream post-Christian society and I could get away with calling Jesus a 'mad fucker' but would face all round condemnation if I said the same thing about Mohammed. I am all for equality ~ the equality of religions to be freely criticised or believed in without favour.




calling Jesus a 'mad fucker'
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Old 11-10-2005, 08:40 PM   #40
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It's an example, it is the most baseline criticism that I could think of by attacking a fundamental figure in a religion.

This is a derailment the only relevence is that it is about illogical hatred.

I don't consider anti-Americanism to be an issue, the only truly anti-America pieces that I can think of are the tirades by certain religious figures about how America is a crusader nation under the evil sway of a cabal of Jewish powermongers and that the crusader nation must be fought. It is reflexive hatred not grounded in any reality ~ thats different from people hating corporate expansion, multinationals, absence of welfare or elevating their own national self-worth by showing how their countries are so much better compared to the problems America has ~ none of which are anti-American. Same goes for criticism of government policy, conciencious objection, protesting etc.
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Old 11-10-2005, 08:43 PM   #41
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Labelling someone as anti-American rather than refute their arguments is intellectual lazyness that is frequently expoused by people who proudly claim to be anti-intellectual.
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Old 11-10-2005, 10:05 PM   #42
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Maybe I'm sensitive to it as an American, but I do sense a sort of casual anti-Americanism in quite a lot of people...not even anti-Americanism, but sort of holding the country to some golden standard, people thinking they know everything about the country, and people always pointing out the faults when those same things are obviously present within their own country.

For instance, the idea that America is horribly unequal and that we completely leave anyone who isn't filthy rich out in the cold. Even in Western European countries, with their (apparently) infallible social safety nets, the same if not worse inequality exists. Other countries struggle with the same race issues, integration issues, etc.

As far as the "how could you vote in a man like Bush?" thing goes...as I think a few people have pointed out, 49% of the country didn't vote for him, and his approval ratings are much lower since. But I honestly hate having to constantly reassert myself as someone who would never vote for Bush just to prove to non-Americans that I'm the "good" kind of American. While I normally would jump at the chance to lump together Republicans (and I do it often ), in the broader scheme of things, it's important to realize that things aren't so black and white as they might seem to an outsider. There are plenty of leaders in other countries who I don't like, and can't understand how they could be elected. But I think it's hard to completely understand the politics and mechanics of any country unless you've lived there for a while.

I have to say, as someone who never supported us going into Iraq, it really gets under my skin when people portray it as some sort of horrendous mass slaughter of civilians, and try to downplay Saddam's regime. While I'm positive our main reasons for involvement were out of self-interest, as just about any war started by any country in history has been, I think an argument could at least be made that the sanctions were just as cruel. I don't even support the war, but sometimes I get a little sick of the way some will insist that no one with a brain or a heart could think it was the right thing to have done.

Also, things like gay marriage...last time I checked, I think there were like 3 or 4 countries that gave gay couples marriages/civil unions. Obviously a lot of other countries are struggling with the issue as well. Just because our debate over it is currently very prominent, that does not mean we're all Bible-thumpers or that the "religious right" is so much stronger here and has no presence in Europe or elsewhere.

The image of Americans as being ignorant of other countries and cultures is probably true in a lot of people, to some extent. It's sort of a result of the geographical location and size of the place, I guess. My dad's in his 40s and has only been to Canada, but it has nothing to with ignorance or contempt for other cultures...he's just never been in the position to be able to afford a somewhat long trip to Europe or anywhere else. (If you're crossing the Atlantic, you don't stay for a weekend!)

Generally, I think it can be overstated...crying anti-Americanism whenever someone makes a point about one of our many policy flaws is stupid, and writing coffee table books about how much you hate the French or some dumb shit like that is immature. However, I do sense that some people would like to blame America or evil capitalism for all the ills of the world, and often make very hypocritical comments, and fail to realize that their countries often struggle with the same issues.
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Old 11-11-2005, 02:14 AM   #43
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Bad will, Yolland? This place isn't worth the effort of serious debate that will NEVER be reciprocated. I'm just venting, and pretty diplomatically I might add.

It was goodtimes.
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Old 11-11-2005, 02:20 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer

I don't consider anti-Americanism to be an issue, the only truly anti-America pieces that I can think of are the tirades by certain religious figures about how America is a crusader nation under the evil sway of a cabal of Jewish powermongers and that the crusader nation must be fought. It is reflexive hatred not grounded in any reality ~ thats different from people hating corporate expansion, multinationals, absence of welfare or elevating their own national self-worth by showing how their countries are so much better compared to the problems America has ~ none of which are anti-American. Same goes for criticism of government policy, conciencious objection, protesting etc.
Jesus Christ this guy says something to which I can wholeheartedly agree.

I want to eat a kangaroo steak with you sometime.
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Old 11-11-2005, 02:30 AM   #45
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They are running one today?
They happen to appear when you dont expect them.. you remember the classic Monty Python scene..?
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