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Old 11-09-2004, 06:13 PM   #61
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so true, so true.

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Old 11-09-2004, 06:20 PM   #62
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He's liberal in aspects other than politics. He challenges people and prods them to examine their faith. He never brings up politics in the pulpit.

Well thats not really liberal at all. I was under the assumption by first reading the line that he supports liberal ideas from the pulpit.
But examining ones faith is something right or left of the political spectrum is healthy and probably one of the better things anyone as a faith believer could do on a daily basis. Thats not meant to mean questioning god or try to change the teachings but rather question yourself to be sure your walking the path you should be.

Now if his teachings are of the kind that question God and the work of the bible with which he is teaching from, then we have another ball game eniterly. But from your response it sounds like in the process of prodding hes struck the sheep a bit harder than they cared to be. And that could be the root for their dislike of him. I hope it all works for you folks.
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Old 11-09-2004, 07:19 PM   #63
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as my dad put it, they don't have much control in other aspects of their lives, but church gives them a chance to have power/control. it's very sad.
My priest, who has been with our parish several months, at his last parish went through exactly the same thing as your father. He was ousted by a conservative power alignment of parishioners. He was "too liberal" for them.

Your dad is exactly right about the control thing. Some people who are in power in churches -- and this is really irrespective of political party affiliation -- have acquired that power for no other reason than they have been a member of the congregation for a long time and served on a governing board for a long time. And of that group, those who are most petty and immature and controlling will fight the hardest to hold onto that power. Again, this goes for liberals, conservatives and everybody in between.

People "act out" in church in a way that they never would in any other aspect of public life -- and in church, they get away with it.

This new priest of ours is unfortunately already getting beat up by some parishioners for sometimes doing things differently than "the way things have always been done" (this usually has to do with the way the liturgy itself is done). People are amazingly short-sighted and self-centered. *shrug*

My priest has told me a lot about what happened in the parish he used to lead (and from which he was ousted) and part of what he told me is that these people in particular power alliances will not give up until they get their way. In short, they're petty little human beings and they need to fucking grow up, but never will.

It doesn't matter how much good the pastor has done.....

It doesn't matter if he or she is great at being a pastor and does the job as it should be done....

It doesn't matter if the pastor implements and oversees the development of great programs that bring growth to the church...

None of that matters if the pastor pisses off the wrong group of village idiots.
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Old 11-09-2004, 07:32 PM   #64
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Originally posted by pub crawler


My priest has told me a lot about what happened in the parish he used to lead (and from which he was ousted) and part of what he told me is that these people in particular power alliances will not give up until they get their way. In short, they're petty little human beings and they need to fucking grow up, but never will.

It doesn't matter how much good the pastor has done.....

It doesn't matter if he or she is great at being a pastor and does the job as it should be done....

It doesn't matter if the pastor implements and oversees the development of great programs that bring growth to the church...

None of that matters if the pastor pisses off the wrong group of village idiots.
That is so sadly true. It works in almost every group situation too.
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Old 11-09-2004, 07:38 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally posted by pub crawler

My priest has told me a lot about what happened in the parish he used to lead (and from which he was ousted) and part of what he told me is that these people in particular power alliances will not give up until they get their way. In short, they're petty little human beings and they need to fucking grow up, but never will.

It doesn't matter how much good the pastor has done.....

It doesn't matter if he or she is great at being a pastor and does the job as it should be done....

It doesn't matter if the pastor implements and oversees the development of great programs that bring growth to the church...

None of that matters if the pastor pisses off the wrong group of village idiots.
Right now, I am very thankful for my pastors (married couple - she's the "80%" pastor and he's the "20%" pastor and is also getting his doctorate in theology.) and my congregation. I've seen touches of crap like this going on because you can't please everyone - but our church thanks our pastors and our pastors thank our congregation all of the time. Something is working right here.
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Old 11-09-2004, 07:50 PM   #66
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Gah! U2Dem!!

This is such a terrible situation. I just dont know what to say.

But you know that I'm ALWAYS around to talk to if you need it. You know where to find me, and I'll be there to lend an ear. Don't forget that.

No matter what happens, we all love ya, kiddo.
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Old 11-09-2004, 08:13 PM   #67
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How awful!

I hope your dad finds a church where people appreciate him. Those hypocritcal so-and-so's don't deserve him.

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Old 11-10-2004, 05:36 AM   #68
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I really hate all of this egos and power political plays in churches. Priests have come and gone in my church, I don't follow what the power structure is doing. Probably if I did I'd find out some rather shocking things. To be perfectly honest I'm not sure I want to know this stuff.
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Old 11-10-2004, 05:43 AM   #69
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Churches are microcosms of the general population. I think we are fooling ourselves if we think that being active in a church will automatically change a person or have them drop their human tendencies.
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Old 11-10-2004, 05:53 AM   #70
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Everything pubcrawler and nbcrusader said, unfortunately is the truth. power corrupts, no matter how big or small the power may be. right now the future of my parents and me is in the hands of our congregation. we'll see how they respond on november 21 when they vote.
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Old 11-10-2004, 08:11 AM   #71
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Re: Another reason for me to fucking hate republicans.

Quote:
Originally posted by U2democrat
My dad is a minister. He is quiet about his politics, but people at my church know he is a democrat.

A circle of republicans who have power at my church have proposed to cut $25,000 dollars of my dad's salary. That would mean we live in poverty. They cut NOTHING ELSE from the budget, EXCEPT my dad's salary. They want him out, period. Even if the budget fails these people will still be trying to bring him down, therefore he is searching for another church. Normally I don't curse but I just have to get this of my chest.

FUCK THEM!!! FUUUUUUUUCK THEEEEEEEM!!!!

Right as they need to pay for my college tuition. Yes, this IS because my dad is a Democrat and the people in power are Republicans. FUCK THEM!!!!
Hmmmm, that really sucks. One thing though, trust me it's not any better on the conservative side of the fence! My bf's dad is a pastor who was called to help start the church he's at now and he's still making less than didley even though they love him and he loves his job. But those people in charge of the budget sound like cowards to me. Ultimately, they DO have the right to decide who preaches, but driving someone out by cutting his salary is a pretty damn immature thing to do. If they don't agree with his politics or theology, they should come out and say it so a more respectable solution can be found. Now I'm not really sure how these things work since I only recently became an independent member of my church, but I'm guessing the congregation will vote on the proposed budget?

Also, don't stress about college tuition, that's what student loans and scholarships are for. My college tuition is $26,000/yr and my parents can't pitch in a cent.
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Old 11-10-2004, 12:29 PM   #72
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Originally posted by DaveC
Gah! U2Dem!!

This is such a terrible situation. I just dont know what to say.

But you know that I'm ALWAYS around to talk to if you need it. You know where to find me, and I'll be there to lend an ear. Don't forget that.

No matter what happens, we all love ya, kiddo.
this former republican feels the same way.
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Old 11-10-2004, 12:54 PM   #73
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this former republican feels the same way.
thanks dread, thanks dave
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Old 11-10-2004, 01:45 PM   #74
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Don't get all mushy on me now...please...
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Old 11-10-2004, 02:20 PM   #75
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Don't get all mushy on me now...please...
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