Another man's perspective re Iraq. This may sway even the most liberalthinker - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

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Old 03-14-2003, 03:50 PM   #16
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This speech sucks. And if I was in attendance, I would feel insulted to hear nothing but a rehash of what I can watch on Fox "News" every night.

I particularly love the bit about how much Saddam gives families of suicide bombers. Too bad the speaker conveniently left out just how much Iraq gives the families of Palestinians who are murdered by Israeli forces or who have their homes destroyed.

Even CNN had the objectivity to report on that the other day.

Overall I give the speech 2 out of 10.

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Old 03-14-2003, 10:14 PM   #17
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Ditto what Gabrielvox, Klaus, melon, verte76, and FizzingWhizzbees said.

Sorry, this speech hasn't swayed me in the least.

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Old 03-14-2003, 10:19 PM   #18
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Angela-
We didnt expect it to

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Old 03-15-2003, 06:31 PM   #19
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Diamond:

so, could you answer my questions 1-3?

(to remind you:
1. Do you think you can prevent terrorism with war against countries?
2. Do you think the US of A should declare war to all countries with Weapons of Mass destruction which might sell them to Terrorists
3. Do you think a single nation has the right to make a regime change in a foreign country ? )

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Old 03-15-2003, 06:41 PM   #20
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No Diamond has no answer to those questions because the Bush administration hasn't provided him with the proper answers.

We need a goosestep similie (ok Pax just kidding).

Seriously I watch CSPAN daily and the administration is not answering any questions about the cost of anything. It also friggin lies in it's budget reports.
Please people, if you have parents that will be using medicare in the next decade, look at Bush's budget. He's cutting 300 to add 28. A tax cut in at wartime is irresponsible.
Sorry I hijacked.
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Old 03-15-2003, 11:13 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus
Diamond:

so, could you answer my questions 1-3?

(to remind you:
1. Do you think you can prevent terrorism with war against countries?
2. Do you think the US of A should declare war to all countries with Weapons of Mass destruction which might sell them to Terrorists
3. Do you think a single nation has the right to make a regime change in a foreign country ? )

Klaus
1 -yes more times than not.

2-only those that have wilfully disregarded War Treaties and UN Resolutions and Sauntions.-sp

3-When that nation is in danger and has been attacked by surrogates or other nations working in concert or collusion esp those that sponsor or harbor terrorism. -yes.

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Old 03-16-2003, 08:17 AM   #22
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1) remember that AlQuaida is not a government controlled organisation, it's like bombing the US to stop Greenpeace activists or a airstrike against Great Britain because of the "terror of amnesty international" (.

2) I'm sorry, i don't anderstand your answer "Sauntions"? do you mean sanctions?

3) So you are against the regime change in Iraq

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Old 03-16-2003, 09:32 AM   #23
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1-so what smartypants

2-yes mr spell check.

3-whatever.
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Old 03-16-2003, 12:56 PM   #24
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diamond:

2. ok, i was unsure, i wanted to make sure that i understand you.

to pt.2:
so what is your reason for the war, Iraq who dosn't care enough about UN autrhority? (well US dosn't either these days) OR the weapon of Mass Destruction which are owned by i antiamerican regime?

You shoudn't take a bunch of weak arguments and hope that all together might be enough reason for war.

3.

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Old 03-16-2003, 01:40 PM   #25
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I just started to read todays New York times and had to come back.

1.

On three continents, Al Qaeda and other terror organizations have intensified their efforts to recruit young Muslim men, tapping into rising anger about the American campaign for war in Iraq,
...


"An American invasion of Iraq is already being used as a recruitment tool by Al Qaeda and other groups," a senior American counterintelligence official said. "And it is a very effective tool."
...and...
"Bin Laden's strategy has always been to demonstrate to the Islamic community that the West, and especially the U.S., is starting a global war against Muslims," Judge Bruguière said. "An attack on Iraq might confirm this vision for many Muslims. I am very worried about the next wave of recruits."

Interesting article, please read it diamond, it's called "Anger on Iraq Seen as New Qaeda Recruiting Tool" By D. Natta and D. Butler

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Old 03-16-2003, 02:34 PM   #26
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03-16-2003 08:21 AM - Spain links Iraq to 9-11..(NOT THAT IT MATTERS)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please read and keep an open mind.
If you cannot keep an open mind just dream up and manufacture excuses after glossing over this..

thank u-
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WAR ON TERROR
Spain links Iraq
to 9-11 attacks
Madrid turns over documents
to U.S., holds terrorist for trial

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: March 16, 2003
1:00 a.m. Eastern



© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

An alleged terrorist accused of helping the Sept. 11 conspirators was invited to a party by the Iraqi ambassador to Spain under his al-Qaida pseudonym, according to documents seized by Spanish investigators and turned over to U.S. authorities, the London Observer reports.

Yusuf Galan, who was photographed being trained at a camp run by Osama bin Laden, is now in jail, awaiting trial in Madrid. The indictment against him, drawn up by investigating judge Baltasar Garzon, claims he was "directly involved with the preparation and carrying out of the attacks ... by the suicide pilots on 11 September."

Evidence of Galan's links with Iraqi government officials came to light only recently, as investigators pored through more than 40,000 pages of documents seized in raids at the homes of Galan and seven alleged co-conspirators. The Spanish authorities have supplied copies to lawyers in America, and this week the documents will form part of a dossier to be filed in a federal court in Washington, claiming damages of approximately $100 billion on behalf of more than 2,500 Sept. 11 victims, according to the Observer report.

The lawsuit lists Saddam's government in Iraq as one of its principal defendants, claiming it provided 'material support' to the al-Qaida terrorists.

While many opposing the invasion of Iraq have been skeptical of the al-Qaida-Iraq link, in recent months George Tenet, director of the CIA, has made increasingly strong statements alleging such a connection. In congressional testimony, he said that Iraq had co-operated with al-Qaida for 10 years, and that it had trained al-Qaida members in bomb-making and the use of chemical and biological weapons.

WorldNetDaily has reported Iraq's sponsorship of al-Qaida dating back more than a decade since Dec. 2002.

The evidence in support of the Sept. 11 damages claim cites several examples of this alleged co-operation. They include the terrorist training camp at Salman Pak near Baghdad, where former Iraqi intelligence brigadier Jamal al-Qurairy has said that non-Iraqi Islamic radicals were trained to hijack aircraft using knives.

It also includes a new affirmation by the Czech government that Mohamed Atta, the leader of the Sept. 11 plotters, met an Iraqi intelligence officer, Ibrahim al-Ani, in Prague in April 2001. Some US officials have suggested this meeting did not happen. But in a signed statement dated 24 February, 2003, Hynek Kmonicek, the Czech ambassador to the UN, says his government 'can confirm that during the stay of Mohamed Atta ... there was contact with Mr al-Ani, who was on 22 April, 2001 expelled from the Czech Republic on the basis of activities not compatible with his diplomatic status [the usual euphemism for spying]'. Garzon's indictment says Galan was part of a cell which organized bank robberies on behalf of al-Qaida, and which had supported the group around Atta financially and logistically





what say you Bush Haters and Sympathisers??

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Old 03-16-2003, 02:43 PM   #27
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WAR ON TERROR
New evidence links
Saddam, bin Laden
Iraqi intelligence agent liaison between Baghdad, al-Qaida?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: December 9, 2002
12:54 p.m. Eastern



© 2002 WorldNetDaily.com

Shortly before the Sept. 11 attacks, a group of al-Qaida fighters left Afghanistan and set up shop in Iraq as a backup base, according to a report in today's Los Angeles Times.

Osama bin Laden's jihadists established such a base in town of Al Biyara and nearby mountain villages where Kurdish militants had begun imposing the strict Islamic rule much like Afghanistan's ousted Taliban regime, according to the Times report.

While this base is further evidence of Saddam Hussein's recent support of al-Qaida, documented by many intelligence sources over the last 10 years, Iraq is attempting to maintain plausible deniability with regard to the bases – suggesting they are outside the control of the government in Baghdad.

While some intelligence sources believe Baghdad maintains liaison with al-Qaida through a senior intelligence officer by the name of Abu Wael, others insist Wael heads Ansar, an al-Qaida affiliate, and actually opposes Hussein.

Within two weeks of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks in the United States, Ansar terrorists attacked security forces of the pro-U.S. Kurdish government. More than 20 Kurds were killed, their throats slit and bodies mutilated, according to the Times report. Sporadic and deadly clashes have ensued.

In April, Ansar tried to assassinate Barham Salih, the prime minister of the eastern sector of Iraqi Kurdistan, reports the Times. Five bodyguards were slain. Ansar, the report says, also tested primitive chemical weapons, including a cyanide gas, on farm animals this year.

"For the Kurds, the 600 to 700 Ansar fighters and the 35 to 100 al-Qaida members are now the most serious threat in Kurdistan, the only Iraqi region not under Hussein's control – and the only region that would welcome U.S. troops to oust him," reported the Times. "Fighting broke out again Wednesday when Ansar guerrillas launched a surprise attack on Kurdish security forces, reportedly killing dozens."

According to Qassem Hussein Mohammed, 36, an Iraqi intelligence agent captured by the Kurds in January, Wael was a major in the Iraqi army who joined Hussein's top intelligence unit after finishing law school. He eventually became the clandestine link between Hussein's regime and al-Qaida, he said.

"In 1995, Abu Wael was instructed by Baghdad to go to Afghanistan to be the connection between al-Qaida and Baghdad," Mohammed told the Times. "He did this five years, until he came back to Kurdistan in 2000."

Mohammed says he knows the details because he was the courier between Abu Wael and Baghdad – traveling to both Afghanistan and Kurdistan.

Assertions that Iraq is cooperating and supporting al-Qaida are supported by the findings of a new book by a top terrorism expert.

Yossef Bodansky, author of "The High Cost of Peace," says joint preparations by Hussein, Yasser Arafat and al-Qaida for a new wave of anti-U.S. terror began last spring. The model for the terrorism campaign is Arafat's Black September Organization of the 1970s.

The initiative for the alliance came from Palestinian Islamists based in Lebanon and Syria, according to Bodansky, the U.S. Congress' top terrorism adviser. The response from al-Qaida came April 2, says Bodansky.

"A group calling itself the bin Laden Brigades-Palestine issued a statement formally integrating the Islamist and Fatah wave of anti-Israel terrorism into bin Laden's global jihad," he writes in his new book. "The bin Laden Brigades announced that their forces were now at the disposal of 'Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades and fighter commander Marwan al-Barghouti' to fight 'alongside the Brigades' fighters and the Islamic factions.' The statement emphasized that numerous Palestinian factions, specifically including al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, '[had] become part of the International Front for Fighting Jews and Christians, led by Osama bin Laden.' They now '[had] found the path of Islam and adopted the line of genuine resistance of the jihad movement and Islamic resistance, that is the path of jihad and martyrdom for the sake of God, and discarded forever the lies of the alleged peace and the myths of negotiations.'"

The anti-U.S. coalition also includes Hamas and Islamic Jihad.

A communique issued on April 2 from the Unified Leadership of the Intifadah – an umbrella organization representing Arafat's Fatah groups, Hamas, Islamic Jihad and other members of the Palestine Liberation Organization – called for attacks on U.S. interests.

"The United States is backing the Israeli assault on the Palestinians," it said. "Therefore, U.S. facilities, targets and interests throughout the world should be harmed."

Unit 999 of Iraqi intelligence has helped train both Arafat's shock troops and bin Laden's Islamists for suicide operations utilizing weapons of mass destruction. According to Bodansky's book, some of these terrorists have already "succeeded in infiltrating several Arab countries. They are provided with instructions, secret codes and advanced weapons."

According to Israeli sources, the Iraqis permitted the terrorist trainees to test chemical weapons in southern Kurdistan.


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Old 03-16-2003, 05:41 PM   #28
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Many people who are against war are questioning Bush's motives for taking action against Iraq. My question is whether his motives are really that relevent. He might be doing this for the wrong reasons, but that doesn't mean that this isn't the right thing to do.

originally posted by Gabrielvox...
Quote:
I particularly love the bit about how much Saddam gives families of suicide bombers. Too bad the speaker conveniently left out just how much Iraq gives the families of Palestinians who are murdered by Israeli forces or who have their homes destroyed.
Are you suggesting that Saddam Hussein is justified in supporting suicide bombers?
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Old 03-17-2003, 08:35 AM   #29
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U2fan42:

you are right, it might be the right thing, but if it becomes a sucesstory or a desaster might be the difference of style.
You can't force people to Democracy , especally you can't expect neigbouring countries to get in love with that idea if you do it the wrong way.

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