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Old 06-21-2004, 07:01 PM   #91
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A_Wanderer - Islam IS a theocracy, it always was. Islam and Judaism are both theoretically theocracies, they share that in common. The notion behind the theocracy is that religion is all pervasive and permeates the entire social fabric. Therefore, your definition of Islamism as a political ideology to establish a theocracy is incorrect straight off the bat - no politics are necessary for creating the notion of Islamic theocracy, this is the very definition of the religion, and the historical context in which it developed.
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Old 06-21-2004, 11:49 PM   #92
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There is a definite distinction between Islam and Islamism. You have to reciognize that like Judaism, Islam is a religion that tells people how to live their lives but it is not inherently a tool for governing the state, there can be Islamic countries that are not theorcratic in nature and that don't use things like Sharia Law. Islam is a religion, Islamism is most certainly a political ideology.


From Wikipedia
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Islamism is an ideology which holds that Islam is not only a religion, but a system that also governs the politicial, economic and social imperatives of the state. A crucial goal of Islamism is to take control of the state in order to implement the Islamist system. Most Islamist rhetoric and literature compares Islam not with other religions, but with other ideologies, such as Nationalism, Communism, Capitalism, Fascism, etc.
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Theocracy is a form of government in which the governmental rulers are identical with the leaders of the dominant religion, and governmental policies are either identical with or strongly influenced by the principles of the majority religion.
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Old 06-22-2004, 01:22 PM   #93
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Reuters

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DUBAI (Reuters) - An Iraqi group has carried out its threat to behead a South Korean hostage, Al Jazeera television said on Tuesday.
It gave no more details but showed a brief extract of film showing four heavily armed gunmen, standing over a kneeling, blindfolded figure, saying they were about to carry out their threat.

Militants kidnapped 33-year-old Kim Sun-il on June 17 and had threatened on Monday to kill him within 24 hours.

An Iraqi intermediary said on Tuesday the group, Jama'at al-Tawhid and Jihad, had agreed to allow more time for talks on his fate.

The U.S.-led occupation authority in Iraq had vowed to do all it could to rescue Kim, an Arabic speaker and evangelical Christian who had worked in Iraq for a year as a translator for a Korean firm supplying goods to the U.S. army.

He was seized in Falluja, a flashpoint city in the anti-U.S. insurgency 50 km (32 miles) west of Baghdad.
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Old 06-22-2004, 01:25 PM   #94
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Normal One More For The Pile

South Korean Hostage Beheaded in Iraq - Al Jazeera

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DUBAI (Reuters) - An Iraqi group has carried out its threat to behead a South Korean hostage, Al Jazeera television said Tuesday.

It gave no more details. Militants kidnapped 33-year-old Kim Sun-il on June 17 and had threatened Monday to kill him within 24 hours.
I hope the contingent of the South Korean army headed to Iraq gets to hunt down these bastards
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Old 06-22-2004, 06:08 PM   #95
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Old 06-22-2004, 06:10 PM   #96
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Bastards indeed. Terrorists are sick SOB's.
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Old 06-22-2004, 06:15 PM   #97
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Old 06-28-2004, 11:44 AM   #98
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The Next Head May Be A Muslim Head!?!

Militants Threaten to Behead Iraq Hostages

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The family of Cpl. Wassef Ali Hassoun confirmed that he was the kidnapped American Marine who appeared in a videotape shown Sunday. The U.S. military said Hassoun, a Muslim of Middle Eastern origin, had been missing from his unit for nearly a week.
How will they handle this? Do they kill based on passport, religion, or just for their own bloodlust?
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Old 06-28-2004, 11:49 AM   #99
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Maybe they are just religious fanatics who happen to derive some sort of sick pleasure from slicing peoples heads of. There is not difference between these (and im struggling to say this) people and serial killers. What they do is criminal and there is no justification for it (Although the Saudi Authorities may have a different P.O.V. on that one).

The only good thing they will ever do in this world is catch some American Bullets with their skulls.
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Old 06-28-2004, 11:54 AM   #100
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer


The only good thing they will ever do in this world is catch some American Bullets with their skulls.
So I guess we can justify one's bloodlust for anothers?
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Old 06-28-2004, 11:59 AM   #101
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A_Wanderer:
Any particular reason that you prefer the American bullet over a Australian, German, or British bullet?
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Old 06-28-2004, 12:04 PM   #102
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US Soldier - US Bullets

Which reminds me, recently the a senate armed services oversight comittee (thats the thing right) member was saying that it was wrong to use Israeli made bullets against terrorists in Iraq and that they should only be used for target practice. So I will ammend that one to Zionist US Bullets.

I have no interest in having a full fledged vendetta against these men who murder civilians but I would be lying if I said that I don't derive some satisfaction from hearing that a true terrorist (I do not consider militias to be terrorists however taking and murdering hostages does rank on my Terrorist-o-Metre) have been killed, Those men are a persistent threat to the stability of the country and the lives of countless individuals, one less bad guy means that more innocent lives have been saved which is not a bad thing.

There fundamental principles of war that must be upheld, taking captured Civilians and Soldiers and beheading them contradicts these in the worst manner, we are not fighting against soldiers we are fighting against murderers. For those that kill in such a barbaric fashion with no decency or humanity I would think that a bullet is more than they deserve, but I do not dictate life and death. They murder, they become targets, if they don't surrender or are impossible to arrest then I would not have a problem with striking them with deadly force. If on the other hand they were captured then they would be tried for their crimes and the intelligence gained would be able to save lives, either way such a threat must be contained and must be done through proper action and not the sick and sadistic methods that they (the ones with the scimitar) employ.
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Old 06-28-2004, 12:27 PM   #103
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A_Wanderer:
It hapened in Saudi Arabia, you are from Melburne, that's why i was surprised that you were thinking about US Bullets and US Soldiers first. It looked verry "Americanish" to me

Quote:
For those that kill in such a barbaric fashion with no decency or humanity I would think that a bullet is more than they deserve
Again the same "ideology" like the "freedom fighters" in Iraq. They all think that their enemy deserves death because of what he's done
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Old 06-28-2004, 12:37 PM   #104
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What? the US Marine was captured in Iraq not Saudi Arabia so I think that there is a problem there in Saying that the US should deal with the terrorists who kidnapped a Marine. Saudi Authorites comment was in general towards the concept of Beheadding Hostages seeing how they are at best impotent and at worst complicit in such crimes.

I do not want them dead simply because I hate them, it is because they are an ongoing threat to innocent people. How exactly is wanting a threat removed to promote peace and prosperity in any way related to the ideological goals that the terrorists hold for Iraq. It is the way that we fight wars, see a threat and eliminate it.

I am also freely admitting that those that behead innocent people are murderers. There is an element of justice when they are finally stopped. I do not advocate the death penalty because I think that it is abhorent to kill a person who is locked up and no longer poses a threat. I do not want to see Saddam put to death, I would see him pay for his crimes by making the rest of his life unpleasent but I would not want him to be killed. Uday and Qusay though, they were a threat and they fought, we fought back and they were killed. They were very nasty customers and their deaths were in my opinion a good thing and at a very basic level a form of justice, but not one to be employed against captured prisoners or those who could be captured without a strong degree of risk involved.

I said I think that a bullet is more than they deserve and this is true, I think that they should pay real penace for what they have done, they took a life in cold blood and that is not something to be taken lightly, in an ideal world they would have to spend the rest of their lives rebuilding Iraq for no pay. Really having to work for most of their remaining life to put the country that they tried to tear apart back together would be justice. A quick death with a bullet is really more than they deserve in my eyes but at least they will never harm another person.

This post should preempt those who are going to say that taking any pleasure from somebody dying no matter how bad they are is wrong and is no better than the terrorists themselves I say this. Go out and download the Nick Berg decapitation video, it is out there. There are others too, go out and watch what they do to these innocent people, see the knife being yanked across a mans throat, listen to the screams and the gurgling sounds, the blood pooling on the floor and then tell me that the world is not a little bit better without such hatred and evil in the world. I cannot guarantee that you will react as strongly to such brutality as I did but I personally take comfort that nobody else will suffer the same fate at the hands of these men and that as they are removed from Iraq genuine progress can be made and a peaceful country with the freedoms and liberties we enjoy can be created.
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Old 06-28-2004, 07:01 PM   #105
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Militants Say They Executed U.S. Soldier in Iraq -TV

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Al Jazeera television aired a video tape on Monday showing what militants said was the execution of a U.S. soldier captured in Iraq in April.
Criminal or enemy?
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