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Old 10-03-2007, 10:31 PM   #61
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Originally posted by maycocksean


Oh, were you at the last meeting of the African American Community? Because usually it's only us black folk there. . .and I don't recall us all deciding that we deeply respect Clarence Thomas. . .

At any rate, this particular African American doesn't deeply respect Clarence Thomas. I'd be curious to know how you were able to divine the opinions of all the others African Americans in the country.
i was curious about this too. i don't remember electing diamond as our spokesperson.
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Old 10-03-2007, 10:51 PM   #62
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Originally posted by unico


i was curious about this too. i don't remember electing diamond as our spokesperson.
Actually I think both of you guys are trying to pick a fight, but I choose not to participate.

Anyway, there was a USA Today Poll a while back by and among African Americans Clarence Thomas and Condi Rice out ranked other black leaders.


Here's an article that says African Americans are mostly conservative in values once you "scratch pass the surface" the statement was made by an African American preacher in the article, please don't excoriat the preacher for his views.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/artic...110030090/1001

If I can find the poll, I will post it.

dbs
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Old 10-04-2007, 12:10 AM   #63
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^ that article is *hilarious*.

it reminds me of articles in women's magazines where they make up some kind of problem -- cellulite? crow's feet? backne? -- and then recommend some product that will cure it. it's advertising, really, just masquerading as an article. or, like, in Men's Health when they "rate" different power bar derivatives.

again, *hilarious*.

and, hey, if you want to point to african-american homophobia as evidence of their "conservative" values -- which is all the article points to, and it takes pains to put "" around the word marriage -- go right ahead. i won't disagree that homophobia in the african-american community at large destroys the lives of young black men and is a huge contributor to the shockingly high rates of HIV amongst young black men.
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Old 10-04-2007, 12:25 AM   #64
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Well this isn't the one I was looking for but it's interesting :

http://a255.g.akamaitech.net/7/255/2...t2/506-507.pdf
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Old 10-04-2007, 02:26 AM   #65
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diamond trying to talk politics
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Old 10-04-2007, 04:22 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
Anyway, there was a USA Today Poll a while back by and among African Americans Clarence Thomas and Condi Rice out ranked other black leaders.
This is the only poll I found in their archives which specifically asked for African-American respondents' views on Justice Thomas. This was from a telephone poll conducted December 2000, of 297 black adults and 867 white adults.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/poll2.htm
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As I read each name, please say if you have a favorable or unfavorable opinion of this person -- or if you have never heard of him. How about...

Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas--
Blacks: Fav 35%, Unfav 52%, Never heard of 7%, No op 6%
Whites: Fav 49%, Unfav 30%, Never heard of 8%, No op 13%
So, hardly supports a contention that "particularly African Americans" would disagree with anitram's underwhelmed impression of Justice Thomas. Even if his 'favorable' numbers were much higher, that still wouldn't show that he's one of "the most respected African Americans by African Americans in our country" or that he "outranks other black leaders"--that wasn't the question being asked at all.
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Old 10-04-2007, 07:40 AM   #67
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Originally posted by diamond


Actually I think both of you guys are trying to pick a fight, but I choose not to participate.

Not at all. Just using a little sarcasm, a practice I'm sure you're not completely unfamiliar with.

My point was that it's a little bold to speak on behalf of the "black community." I'm black and I wouldn't presume to do so, largely because--NEWS FLASH--we don't all think in lockstep. Wouldn't it be silly for me to talk about what "whites" think or talk about the "white leadership" like Bill Clinton, George Bush and other "white leaders"? I understand your point about the polls (though it appears Yolland may have debunked that) but the fact that some or even many African Americans think well of Clarence Thomas doesn't really add up to much.

And yes, I know there are black politicians who would like to claim the mantle of "black leadership" but I generally see them as opportunists.
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Old 10-04-2007, 07:50 AM   #68
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As to the issue of Anita Hill, I really don't know enough to make a judgement one way or the other.

Even if he was falsely accused by Hill, though, that doesn't make me like Thomas any more.
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Old 10-04-2007, 08:57 AM   #69
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Originally posted by diamond

No, I believe that you think that I don't understand you, or that I don't want to understand you, or you may think that I think that my views are superior to yours, none of these assesments are correct.
Well you don't seem to want to understand, given the way you respond sometimes. I have already commented on that last week and other times, it's a waste of time to try again. You act as if you think those views are superior, given your often condescending and insulting responses to mine (and others here). And why can't you discuss Anita Hill without posting pictures of Bill Clinton? It's that tit for tat neener neener that I'm tired of. And you bringing up my alleged "hypocrisy and back flips of logic" when you are guilty of the very same thing-not to mention your political double standards and sexist comments about Democratic women vs Republican women to give just one example. When have you ever made one such comment about a Republican woman? (and I already told you how offensive they are). You can talk about women without using such derogatory terms, can you not? So for you to talk about political bias not to mention "religiosity"-sorry, but

Sexual harassers can harass one person without harassing others, the lack of harassing others is no evidence of innocence. Who wants to defend his smears of Anita Hill in his book-anyone?
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Old 10-04-2007, 09:08 AM   #70
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I was alive and casually followed the case. I do vividly remember Rush plugging a rip-job book called "The REAL Anita Hill" that we (buddies & me) used as a shot at cons...as in, "He's probably got a Newt Gingrich poster over his bed, and read 'The REAL Anita Hill'".

Thinking back, I'm not sure his "harassment" merited him being kept off the SCOTUS. I don't think he's a particulary good justice, and I obviously don't agree with his politics. And his views on Brown v. BoE that yolland pointed out, I'm totally opposed to.

I do think it reflects poorly on him to continue to take shots at Hill. She accused him, he won, let it go. He could take a lesson from Anita Hill, who's moved on from this despite the personal attacks, and handled herself with far more grace & class than Thomas has.
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Old 10-04-2007, 09:35 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


Actually I think both of you guys are trying to pick a fight, but I choose not to participate.

Anyway, there was a USA Today Poll a while back by and among African Americans Clarence Thomas and Condi Rice out ranked other black leaders.


Here's an article that says African Americans are mostly conservative in values once you "scratch pass the surface" the statement was made by an African American preacher in the article, please don't excoriat the preacher for his views.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/artic...110030090/1001

If I can find the poll, I will post it.

dbs
no, i'm not trying to start a fight...but i just didn't think it was too cool to make such a statement. you're no more of a spokesperson for the black community than i am. and since you didn't back up that statement with a reference, well then can you see why i, as an african-american would find that troubling?

these two people may hold distinguished positions in the us govt, but that does not necessarily mean they are among the highest respected of any racial group. i don't think it is cool to make assumptions of us like that.
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Old 10-04-2007, 09:58 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally posted by unico


. i don't think it is cool to make assumptions of us like that.
Point taken, please note one thing, it was what I thought I'd heard.

Perhaps it was "conservative" Black Americans and I inadvertently omitted that part.

I don't know, but I do know what my intentions were.

This one thing I do know for certain, my main man Harris, who I worked side by side with for 10 years loved Clarence, so there.

dbs

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Old 10-04-2007, 10:04 AM   #73
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Originally posted by CTU2fan
I was alive and casually followed the case. I do vividly remember Rush plugging a rip-job book called "The REAL Anita Hill" that we (buddies & me) used as a shot at cons...as in, "He's probably got a Newt Gingrich poster over his bed, and read 'The REAL Anita Hill'".
.


yes, this was published by David Brock who now runs ... drum roll ... Media Matters. the site that called Rush out on his slander against the military.

he's a former rightie who's gone left and talks quite candidly about how well organized the right wing infastructure is and how quickly the organization -- in which Rush is clearly amongst the most powerful -- will put out hit jobs on their opponents.
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Old 10-04-2007, 10:16 AM   #74
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Originally posted by Irvine511




yes, this was published by David Brock who now runs ... drum roll ... Media Matters. the site that called Rush out on his slander against the military.

he's a former rightie who's gone left and talks quite candidly about how well organized the right wing infastructure is and how quickly the organization -- in which Rush is clearly amongst the most powerful -- will put out hit jobs on their opponents.
Wow. Just, wow. That's kind of funny, I wouldn't have guessed that. I might do some googling, it would be interesting to read what he has to say.

I do think the right has a leg up on the left in that regard. There really isn't a left-wing propaganda machine, but there definitely is a right-wing one. Not sure if that's a good or a bad thing actually; I'm not sure I'd want there to be a left counterpart to Rush, Coulter, O'Reilly etc.
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Old 10-04-2007, 10:18 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen


Well you don't seem to want to understand, given the way you respond sometimes. I have already commented on that last week and other times, it's a waste of time to try again. You act as if you think those views are superior, given your often condescending and insulting responses to mine (and others here). And why can't you discuss Anita Hill without posting pictures of Bill Clinton? It's that tit for tat neener neener that I'm tired of. And you bringing up my alleged "hypocrisy and back flips of logic" when you are guilty of the very same thing-not to mention your political double standards and sexist comments about Democratic women vs Republican women to give just one example. When have you ever made one such comment about a Republican woman? (and I already told you how offensive they are). You can talk about women without using such derogatory terms, can you not? So for you to talk about political bias not to mention "religiosity"-sorry, but

Sexual harassers can harass one person without harassing others, the lack of harassing others is no evidence of innocence. Who wants to defend his smears of Anita Hill in his book-anyone?
Well some of your points are well taken.
A lot of my comments being that they are of a minority opinon here are said in jest, sometimes for mere theatrics and sometimes seriously.

I will call out people playfully and sometimes tersely regardless of their gender or polictical persuasion, but yes most of the time it is a person on the Left, like most ppl do here to ppl on the Right here.

Even if Judge Thomas made some indecent proposals to Miss Hill, there is a HUGE disparity for accountability by the Left between he and Thomas, based on all that we know now, and that is my point of my posts about Clinton in this thread.

dbs

ps-

and i feel immuned to too much scrunity as I do not nor never will seek public office.
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