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Old 10-03-2007, 02:13 PM   #31
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I think damaging your family is the very worse thing a person can do, paticularly, the leader of the free world.

That Bill Clinton has stated since leaving office that he sees his impeachment as a "badge of honor" doesn't bode well for a "repentant" person as you claim he is.

I do appreciate some of the humanitarian work Clinton has done since leaving office.

I do feel that he his quite cognizant of how he hopes his public perception appears which is sad, and since you I've read some of your posts and recognize "Christian" leanings in them, this verse reminds me of Bill Clinton:

Matt 16:26:

For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Am I condeming Bill Clinton? No.
Am I concerned about him a bit? Yes, but only a little, I have my own house to keep in order.

Cheers-

dbs
That's still his outer life. The state of his heart and soul have nothing to do with his family. Clearly his family has forgiven him and moved on. His life with his wife and daughter is still in tact, so I see no "demise" in that area. We can interpret what he means by calling his impeachment a "badge of honor" all day long, but I fail to see how that could lead to a conclusion of him being non-repentant. Clinton said he's repentant, and every action I've seen since then has backed it up. I don't know the state of his heart either, so I don't want to try and comment further. The Bible verse you quoted could be applied to any of us who have been blessed in life (and I would say that's pretty much all of us) and still manage to fuck it up (which we all do at some point) None of us are in position to cast judgement (not saying you are specifically, but many have) Bottom Line: Clinton had an affair, Clinton was wrong. Clinton apologized to his family, who forgave him and by his account to God, who forgives anyone who asks. His faults and secrets have been exposed and dealt with. He's a much freer man, than those of us in our self-righteous Christian club who are still hiding our dark secrets behind a mask of morality.
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Old 10-03-2007, 02:16 PM   #32
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And I'd just like to point out how once again, the thread has become exclusively about Clinton.
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Old 10-03-2007, 02:18 PM   #33
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Actually it segued into hypocrisy, and polictical agendas springled with religiosity.

dbs
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Old 10-03-2007, 02:22 PM   #34
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Originally posted by diamond
Actually it segued into hypocrisy, and polictical agendas springled with religiosity.

dbs
That didn't happen until Clinton was brought up. After that, everybody here was merely trying to point out that this case had nothing to do with the Lewinsky scandal. Harassment and perjury are apples and oranges; neither applies to the other here, so the Clinton debate never should have been brought up in the first place.
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Old 10-03-2007, 02:34 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2isthebest





Clinton had an affair, Clinton was wrong.

Quote:
Clinton had an affair,
Point is Clinton had many affairs.

He claimed to be repentant in 1992, that is where a lot of people of faith have problems.

As most understand, Repent means to turn away..but he kept coming back.
His outer (public/professional) life and inner (family/own soul) both suffered due to these behaviors:

Womanizing, lying, interfering with due process of the law which he fought.

These private/public actions hurt his family and public performance, and when it began to unravel he was forced into repenting again- there is a difference in repenting the one who is caught, and is *forced* to repent because of public shame vs. a person who does so privately because he doesn't feel right with God.

Clinton was caught publicly and tried to smear Monica in the process-and was caught at that too.

The jury as to why Hilary has stuck with him, many believe it's for polictical power, time will tell.

In short, Clarence is no Bill Clinton.

Clarence has proved himself over time.

The Left is full of hyporisy for attempting to castigate Clarence while giving a real harrasser a free ride.

dbs
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Old 10-03-2007, 02:43 PM   #36
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Originally posted by diamond





Point is Clinton had many affairs.

He claimed to be repentant in 1992, that is where a lot of people of faith have problems.

As most understand, Repent means to turn away..but he kept coming back.
His outer (public/professional) life and inner (family/own soul) both suffered due to these behaviors:

Womanizing, lying, interfering with due process of the law which he fought.

These private/public actions hurt his family and public performance, and when it began to unravel he was forced into repenting again- there is a difference in repenting the one who is caught, and is *forced* to repent because of public shame vs. a person who does so because he doesn't feel right with God. Clinton was caught publicly and tried to smear monica in the process.

The jury as to why Hilary has stuck with him, many believe it's for polictical power, time will tell.

In short, Clarence was no Bill Clinton and has proved himself over time.

dbs
The only affairs that can be confirmed are the ones Clinton and the woman involved BOTH admitted to. Also, I don't care how many times someone fucks up if they admit it. Repent actually means to "re-think" from it's original translations. It's not this steely, down-on-my-knees- never do it again guilt trip we've turned it into in order to keep people humble and low. Since we're quoting The Bible here, what about the story of the woman caught in adultery. She was caught in bed with a man and dragged in front of all those in the temple to be stoned to death. She didn't come repenting because she felt guilty, she was about to be killed and she was begging for mercy. Jesus didn't care, he forgave her before she asked (and we have no record saying she ever outright asked) and told the self-righteous, judgemental assholes, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Those standing back tsk-ing their judgements at her were probably doing the same thing she was, or something else. Hence the reason they dropped their stones and left. Yes, she was told to "go and sin no more", but Jesus was not foolish enough to believe she would never struggle with that sin or any other again. If that was the case, than we would all stop any sin or imperfect behavior the minute we become Believers. The mere desire to try even if if someone messes up everyday is all that counts for me, and ultimately all that counts for God.
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Old 10-03-2007, 02:50 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
And I'd just like to point out how once again, the thread has become exclusively about Clinton.
Agreed. It's gone three pages now without the actual thread topic being discussed at all. If one can't defend Justice Thomas or critique Anita Hill without turning it into a thread about Bill Clinton, that doesn't say much for the merits of those arguments.
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Old 10-03-2007, 02:56 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2isthebest


someone fucks up .
Quote:
manage to fuck it up..
Do we really need the profanity in your posts? Why are you angry?

I'm not wanting to come across as a saint, for goodness sakes there are other words a person can choose.

Affairs/harrassing women-both are bad, and don't need to be proven if a person is truly repentant last time I checked.

I think Jesus knew the whole story of the adultress, her accusers and did tell her in the end to sin no more. Many lessons can be taken from that biblical story.

And as a believer yes one changes his or her heart, stops sinning paticularly a sin you were caught in.

But say a porn star who accepts Christ one day, claims he's repentant stops filming and sleeping around, then decides to cheat on his income tax, isn't truly repentant now is he,-that I hope we can agree on.

best,

dbs
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Old 10-03-2007, 03:00 PM   #39
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Originally posted by diamond




Do we really need the profanity in your posts? Why are you angry?

I'm not wanting to come across as a saint, for goodness sakes there are other words a person can choose.

Affairs/harrassing women-both are bad, and don't need to be proven if a person is truly repentant last time I checked.

I think Jesus knew the whole story of the adultress, her accusers and did tell her in the end to sin no more. Many lessons can be taken from that biblical story.

And as a believer yes one changes his or her heart, stops sinning paticularly a sin you were caught in.

But say a porn star who accepts Christ one day, claims he's repentant stops filming and sleeping around, then cheats on his income tax, isn't truly repentant-that I hope we can agree on .

best,

dbs
I'm not even continuing a debate with someone who's biggest problem is the language I choose to express myself in. Let's end it here. I'm a Christian, you're a Christian. You're Conservative. I'm Liberal. We will probably never agree on anything other than the base point of Christianity. I'm perfectly convinced of my own opinions, and they're no more right or wrong than yours.
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Old 10-03-2007, 03:45 PM   #40
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Originally posted by diamond


perjury.
Should I start counting your misspellings?
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Old 10-03-2007, 05:02 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland

Agreed. It's gone three pages now without the actual thread topic being discussed at all. If one can't defend Justice Thomas or critique Anita Hill without turning it into a thread about Bill Clinton, that doesn't say much for the merits of those arguments.
Thank you-and thanks anitram. What court of law was Bill Clinton convicted of sexual harassment in? To compare the Anita Hill situation with Monica is laughable-and again I don't condone Clinton's behavior.
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Old 10-03-2007, 05:07 PM   #42
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They were both accused of harrasment.
One was convicted on charges stemming from an earlier allegations.
What's laughable is the hyporisy from the Left and the back flips of logic to justify their positions-even to this day.

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Old 10-03-2007, 05:10 PM   #43
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Originally posted by diamond
Actually it segued into hypocrisy, and polictical agendas springled with religiosity.
Somethings you are very familiar with...
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Old 10-03-2007, 05:11 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond

Affairs/harrassing women-both are bad, and don't need to be proven if a person is truly repentant last time I checked.
Affairs (slash) harassment? What's with the slash? Harassment is illegal-affairs are not. And they have nothing to do with each other. Affairs are consensual, harassment is not.

Is that how Justice Thomas is showing he's repentant, by saying such lovely things about Anita Hill? Or is that necessary somehow to prove his innocence-by saying those things about her? How about just saying again that he didn't do it and leave it at that?
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Old 10-03-2007, 05:13 PM   #45
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What's laughable is the hyporisy from the Left and the back flips of logic to justify their positions-even to this day.
What's really laughable is you talking about hypocrisy and back flips of logic in FYM.
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