Animal cruelty...also, pondering the concept of forgiveness - U2 Feedback

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Old 03-16-2002, 02:26 PM   #1
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Animal cruelty...also, pondering the concept of forgiveness

The things that pisses me off the most right after rapes, domestic violence, child abuse etc... i read an article yesterday about how a man tortured a dog, and then cutting his throat.

I mean, what did the poor animal ever do to him to deserve that? Surely the man wasn't totally sane if he did such cruelty.

Now, how do you guys interprete the idea of forgiveness among people? Not just in everyday fights, but, for example, in a war crime victime family - aren't there things that are just beyond forgiving?


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Old 03-16-2002, 04:52 PM   #2
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Yes, definitely. There are many people who are just too evil to forgive.
The THING that did that to the dog is one of them.

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Old 03-16-2002, 05:16 PM   #3
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I absolutely agree with you about cruelty to animals. I think what bothers me most is that animals are so defenceless, they're so dependent on their owners. They can't understand why someone is hitting them and it breaks my heart when I see an animal who has been treated badly because they just look so confused and so hurt. My dog was abandoned when he was about five weeks old and I found him and brought him home. I also got one of my cats in the same way. My dog is one of the move loving animals I've ever met now, but the cat is still very afraid of strangers - she'll try to hide inside chairs and behind tables if someone she doesn't know comes into our home.

Excuse the little rant there

On the subject of forgiveness...I don't want to get into the issue of whether people can ever commit crimes so terrible they don't deserve forgiveness...but whether you think someone 'deserves' forgiveness or not, I think it's an integral part of healing from whatever that person did to you. I think you can get so tied up in hating someone for hurting you that it ends up with you hurting yourself more than you're hurting that person. You can't ever move on or start to get over/recover from what happened because you're so caught up in anger and hatred towards that person. And ultimately that's just letting them retain some bizarre kind of power over you, when they don't even deserve to be a part of your thoughts.

So that was just a little stream-of-consciousness type of rant. Sorry about that

*Fizz
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Old 03-16-2002, 11:28 PM   #4
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At the risk of sounding like Dr. Phil...

Some people believe that in order to forgive someone or something, you have to concede a little piece of victory to the offender. However, forgiveness, as I and many others see it, is simply saying that the offense committed is no longer going to control you and your life. (I think this is the same as Fizz was saying.)

Recently there was a great article by Phillip Moffitt in Yoga Journal about the practice of forgiveness, and specifically, whether it is possible to forgive those who orchestrated the September 11 attacks. In it, he discusses the true meaning of forgiveness. He especially points out that forgiveness does not mean we sit by passively and allow injustice to happen, nor do we condone hurtful acts. But holding on to rage and countering hate with hate (e.g. an eye for an eye) are not healthy either. As he quotes Buddha, "Hate never yet dispelled hate; Only love dispels hate." And to answer U2girl's question, Moffitt argues that there are no acts beyond forgiveness, although certain acts take more effort to forgive than others.

Anyway, I highly recommend reading the article if you want an interesting interpretaion of what forgiveness is and how it is a noble act on the part of those offended. It may be on yogajournal.com. Just my two cents.

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Old 03-17-2002, 06:55 AM   #5
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I cant put hate and forgiveness together. I hate animal cruelty. The most I can muster is pity for those who do it as they dont have a heart or a soul.
I admire those who can forgive evil, they are a much stronger person than I.
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Old 03-17-2002, 08:56 AM   #6
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I cannot believe I'm about to say this. People, mark this day on your calendars.
Fizzing, I agree with you.

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Old 03-17-2002, 10:15 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:
I cannot believe I'm about to say this. People, mark this day on your calendars.
Fizzing, I agree with you.

lol, launching the official Liberal/Conservative alliance of the forums...or is that taking it too far? Anyway, it's good to see that we do agree on some issues
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Old 03-18-2002, 06:16 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem:
I cant put hate and forgiveness together. I hate animal cruelty. The most I can muster is pity for those who do it as they dont have a heart or a soul.
I admire those who can forgive evil, they are a much stronger person than I.
Yea, I agree totally with Angela here. I've had some CRUEL things done to me and I have yet to forgive those who did them to me.

As for animal cruelty, it breaks my heart. The first time my dog went in for chemo, they had to put him under to remove 3 lymph nodes. He came home and cried in the corner for the rest of the night. I could have died right there! It was absolute torture to listen to his unconsolable cries....and to think of a perfectly healthy animal have to go through pain....ug, it enrages me.

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Old 03-18-2002, 06:45 PM   #9
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Animal cruelty breaks my heart. My dog once ran away and returned four days later missing part of his ear with a section of his head bashed in. He was so bloody that they had to shave off all his fur...he was in such pain after that.

No one, NO CREATURE, deserves to be treated like that. My dog was obviously attacked by someone--he would NEVER have attacked anyone, so I couldn't understand why that had happened.

I think we look at animals and children in the same way--both so innocent, so kind, loving, trusting, that it really hurts to see any evil done to them. I can't forgive it...I try.

There was a story in the news months ago about a man who tied a dog to his back bumpers and drove off down the steet, literally DRAGGINg this dog behind him. I think someone stopped him in time--I can't remember. I was so disgusted. WHo would do such a thing? To a sweet animal who probably never did wrong to anyone/anything, ever. I can't forgive.
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Old 03-19-2002, 04:56 PM   #10
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I couldnt forgive anyone if they did anything really bad....anyone who can is a great person!
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Old 03-20-2002, 04:29 PM   #11
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Have you ever found that you'll be more concerned if a horse dies in a movie scene battle than a person? 'Cos I always find myself sitting there hoping the animal won't die, then when it does I become outraged! But if the main character dies, I don't feel as much. That's sick.

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Old 03-20-2002, 06:24 PM   #12
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Personally, i think i feel as bad when a main character dies in a movie as when an animal does. That is, if i LIKED the character in question.
But, on the other hand...I ALWAYS feel bad when an animal dies! Its so unnecessary.

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Look...look what you've done to me...You've made me poor and infamous, and I thank you...

My name is MISS MACPHISTO...I'm tired and i want to go HOME...

"Well you tell...Bonovista,that i said hello and that my codename is Belleview" - Bono before opening night of Anaheim Elevation concert

Well tonight thank God it's them, instead of you...

[This message has been edited by Miss MacPhisto (edited 03-20-2002).]
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Old 03-21-2002, 10:44 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem:
I cant put hate and forgiveness together. I hate animal cruelty. The most I can muster is pity for those who do it as they dont have a heart or a soul.
I admire those who can forgive evil, they are a much stronger person than I.
Agreed. It makes me ill reading some of the cases here.
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Old 03-21-2002, 05:50 PM   #14
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the thing U2girl is that forgiveness is not up to us, it is up to whoever suffered the crime. in an animal's case, by nature they don't hold grudges, and though they may become fearful, they can often be won back by people. unfortunately the trash that hurt them don't deserve the kindness critters treat them with.
where does forgiveness lie for the dead and for animals? I believe with God, but that's just my opinion.

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Old 03-29-2002, 10:54 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by BabyGrace:
forgiveness is not up to us, it is up to whoever suffered the crime.
One time I got bit by a dog, it was fighting with my dog and my finger got in the way. No big deal really, it certainly hurt at the time and there's a scar, but no harm done. Anyway, the city ordered the dog 'destroyed' (I cannot believe that's the word they use) for being 'dangerous'. I lobbied on its behalf and it lived a long healthy life. I think there are animal people and there are people who hate animals, which is unfortunate.

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