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Old 03-12-2002, 06:54 PM   #1
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Andrea Yates verdict is in

Guilty of capital murder.
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Old 03-12-2002, 07:24 PM   #2
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Quote:
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Guilty of capital murder.
good.
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Old 03-12-2002, 07:36 PM   #3
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I haven't thought long enough about the case to determine what her punishment should be, but one thing is certain: Yates is clearly insane. If the jury can't see that, well, I don't know what to think.
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Old 03-12-2002, 08:46 PM   #4
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I'm sure the jury seen a whole lot more facts then any of us. So for us to say anything when we certainly dont know the whole story is ignorant.

I think anyone who kills is insane. And i also think anyone who kills deserves never to see the light of day.

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Old 03-13-2002, 04:45 PM   #5
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What I find most disappointing is that, under the Texas Constitution, the jury was not allowed to know what the alternative would have been, had she been found "not guilty," which would have been, likely, her spending the rest of her life in a mental institution (due to her plea of "not guilty by reason of insanity").

We complain about prison overcrowding, but what do you expect when we have an essentialist, punishment-based criminal justice system? Not only does Yates need severe mental health care, but she poses absolutely no threat to society to warrant a prison term, not to mention the death penalty.

It is most definitely an unfortunate situation, but Yates will be subject to God, who will ultimately decide her moral culpability for what she did to her children. As it stands, she more than passed the test for legal insanity and poses no risk to the public.

A mental institution is where she belongs, not prison.

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[This message has been edited by melon (edited 03-13-2002).]
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Old 03-13-2002, 05:06 PM   #6
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Yay. I feel that she will be held accountable for what she's done, but wish that her husband would take some responsibility as well. Yates' doctors told her not to have any more children because of her mental state. The BOTH ignored the Dr's advice, not to mention their family's advice, and had two more children. In a way, by having more children and not treating his wife, he should have seen this coming. Maybe I'm alone here, but although I feel tremendous sympathy for him, I don't think he's completely innocent in this situation.
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Old 03-13-2002, 05:23 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Peaseblossom:
Yay. I feel that she will be held accountable for what she's done, but wish that her husband would take some responsibility as well. Yates' doctors told her not to have any more children because of her mental state. The BOTH ignored the Dr's advice, not to mention their family's advice, and had two more children. In a way, by having more children and not treating his wife, he should have seen this coming. Maybe I'm alone here, but although I feel tremendous sympathy for him, I don't think he's completely innocent in this situation.
Exactly right. People were warning him he should get her some help, including her sister and their minister.

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Old 03-13-2002, 06:10 PM   #8
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They were very religious...and I have known of very religious families who believed mental illness was a sin. Really. They believed if you trusted God enough he would get the kinks out of your head. I've heard those same words...and if you had problems you must be doing something wrong...the idea that your mind can get sick the same way your kidneys can doesn't even enter their minds. Rusty Yates was probably living in that la la land...thinking she would get better in time.

I'm not saying the Yates or the people they associated with felt that way...but from what I have seen of them it looks that way.
I hope this is a wake up call to those particular kinds of religious people that mental illness is real people...and listen to the mental health proffesionals the same way you would listen to a heart doctor.
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Old 03-13-2002, 06:15 PM   #9
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dream wanderer, you are unfortunately correct. Growing up in a missionary family, I remember with perfect clarity what it was like to have my mother suffering from clinical depression for years...and having people tell her to her face that she just needed to "trust God more" or some bullshit like that. She was physically sick for a long time and no doctors could diagnose her. It was really awful. Finally, we came back to the States and she got help via counselling and some medication. Now, she's better than I remember her being in YEARS and my parents were able to go back to their mission work. As it was, had my father listened to the naysayers about psychology being "un-Christian", my mom would still be sick and they would have quit their jobs. If anything pisses me off within the religious community, this is the major thing.
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Old 03-13-2002, 06:51 PM   #10
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I agree with both of you, sula and dream wanderer--and melon. Andrea Yates was let down by everyone around her, it seems. She belongs in a mental institution. I feel the more accurate verdict would be something like "Guilty but insane," which doesn't exist.
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Old 03-13-2002, 07:12 PM   #11
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Let
her
FRY.

DB9
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Old 03-13-2002, 08:14 PM   #12
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i have to go with dream wanderer,sula and melon on this one, obviously none of us were in the courtroom to hear every detail, but clearly she is mentally ill. women kill their children every day all over the world behind mental illness. killing a single child is less dramatic and doesn't play as well to a television audience, so the others are never known to us. mental illness is so complex that to level a verdict based on whether the defendant knew right from wrong at the monent of the act is overly simplistic. nevermind that the trial was in texas. that's a whole other can of worms.


diamond, that was a very hateful thing to say.
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Old 03-13-2002, 09:37 PM   #13
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Handbag-
Whats even more hateful is what she did to her 5 children.

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Old 03-13-2002, 10:21 PM   #14
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It amazes me that there's a certain point where an act becomes SO TERRIBLE that it must be an act done out of insanity.

Someone drives down the street, a kid jumps out and is run over? Manslaughter, murder in the third degree.

A man walks in on his wife and her love and kills both in a rage of passion? Murder, probably second degree.

A person hunts down a hated enemy and shoots him twice in the back? Premeditated murder in the first.

But a woman drowns her five children, including one she had to chase around the house? Well, she MUST be insane, so let's not punish her.

Sorry, I don't buy it.

Besides, we must remember that Yates then called 911 and her husband to tell both that she a terrible thing. That's not indication that she didn't know right from wrong, the only distinction through which you can be acquited on the count of insanity.

So, should she be put in prison and possibly executed? Yes.

Should she also be treated for whatever mental problems led her to muder her children? Yes, but in prison.

Does she "pose no risk to the public"? Maybe, depending on two things: whether she ever has children again, and whether those children count as being part of the public.

(Very odd: you concieve, and you can kill it. Let it be born, and you must take care of it. You don't feed it properly, beat the child, or don't send it to school, and you should be tried for child abuse. BUT if you MURDER the child, God forbid a court of law convict you of murder.)
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Old 03-13-2002, 10:23 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon:


Not only does Yates need severe mental health care, but she poses absolutely no threat to society to warrant a prison term, not to mention the death penalty.

Careful what you say here. I think it's fair to argue whether she should be put in a mental hospital, a prison or an electric chair, but in her current state she is clearly a threat to society.
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