... and the world's most violent developed nation is ...

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Irvine511

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Scotland?

yes, i was surprised too.



Scotland tops list of world's most violent countries
By Katrina Tweedie



A UNITED Nations report has labelled Scotland the most violent country in the developed world, with people three times more likely to be assaulted than in America. England and Wales recorded the second highest number of violent assaults while Northern Ireland recorded the fewest.

The study, based on telephone interviews with victims of crime in 21 countries, found that more than 2,000 Scots were attacked every week, almost ten times the official police figures. They include non-sexual crimes of violence and serious assaults.

Violent crime has doubled in Scotland over the past 20 years and levels, per head of population, are now comparable with cities such as Rio de Janeiro, Johannesburg and Tbilisi.

The attacks have been fuelled by a “booze and blades” culture in the west of Scotland which has claimed more than 160 lives over the past five years. Since January there have been 13 murders, 145 attempted murders and 1,100 serious assaults involving knives in the west of Scotland. The problem is made worse by sectarian violence, with hospitals reporting higher admissions following Old Firm matches.

David Ritchie, an accident and emergency consultant at Glasgow’s Victoria Infirmary, said that the figures were a national disgrace. “I am embarrassed as a Scot that we are seeing this level of violence. Politicians must do something about this problem. This is a serious public health issue. Violence is a cancer in this part of the world,” he said.

Detective Chief Superintendent John Carnochan, head of the Strathclyde Police’s violence reduction unit, said the problem was chronic and restricting access to drink and limiting the sale of knives would at least reduce the problem.

The study, by the UN’s crime research institute, found that 3 per cent of Scots had been victims of assault compared with 1.2 per cent in America and just 0.1 per cent in Japan, 0.2 per cent in Italy and 0.8 per cent in Austria. In England and Wales the figure was 2.8 per cent.

Scotland was eighth for total crime, 13th for property crime, 12th for robbery and 14th for sexual assault. New Zealand had the most property crimes and sexual assaults, while Poland had the most robberies.

Chief Constable Peter Wilson, president of the Association of Chief Police Officers in Scotland, questioned the figures. “It must be near impossible to compare assault figures from one country to the next based on phone calls,” he said.

“We have been doing extensive research into violent crime in Scotland for some years now and this has shown that in the vast majority of cases, victims of violent crime are known to each other. We do accept, however, that, despite your chances of being a victim of assault being low in Scotland, a problem does exist.”


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1786945,00.html
 
it doesnt surprise me. Scotland is very much about pub culture. So, it makes sense that there would be lots of bar fights.
 
"...while Poland had the most robberies."

When prejudices get affirmed ;)

Nothing against Poles :wink:
 
As far as murder goes, Scotland is nothing compared to the United States. Over 10,000 people are murdered every year in the United States. The Current murder rate in Scotland has them on pace to have a total of 17 to 18 murders for the entire year. Scotland seemed like a very calm place when I was there and the largest gathering of people all year round during Hogmany was very peaceful. I did not see one fight during the entire festival.
 
The report is likely based on a per captia measurement using an estimated number of violent incidents vs. official police records.


A good reminder that you can use statistics to say just about anything.
 
I thought maybe Ewen would come out of retirement to comment on this one, since we've actually discussed this report amongst ourselves, but since he hasn't, I'll try not to mangle our thoughts on the subject too badly...

(Note: If you're reading this, dear, and I screw something up, please do correct me.)

Ewen has told me that while there are indeed problems with violence (often related to pub and "lad" culture, and very much connected with both football and bad blood between the English and the Scots), reports like this would lead a casual reader to believe that little old ladies are brutally attacked in broad daylight on Princes Street--which couldn't be further from the truth. The Scottish police have decried the report, as the Constable did in the article Irvine originally posted.

From what Ewen has told me about the areas in which contemporary Scottish culture might be seen as violent, it seems to me that, as in most places, if one is not looking for trouble, one can avoid it. I don't feel qualified to comment on any actual problems of violence, and here perhaps Ewen or another of our Scottish posters could chime in, but it seems to me that, as nbc and STING mentioned, some bad methodology and statistics could lead people to be afraid to visit Scotland--and surely there's no reason to be afraid!

BTW, STING, I'll be doing Hogmanay in Edinburgh this year myself and can't wait. :D
 
Yikes. Somone (the Scottish Tourist industry) needs to dial up Ewan MacGregor and have him do some TV commercials. He could charm people into forgetting the report, in true Ewan fashion....("there's only one dangerous weapon in Scotland, and I'm swinging it , but I can't show it on TV."

And somebody, PLEASE tell me how Northern Ireland can rank so low? Whoever did that report didn't interview anybody during Orange marching Season, esp this yr:(
 
Whoa! :huh: How bizarre.

LoveTown said:
it doesnt surprise me. Scotland is very much about pub culture. So, it makes sense that there would be lots of bar fights.

And the rest of the Uk isn't? :confused:

nbcrusader said:
The report is likely based on a per captia measurement using an estimated number of violent incidents vs. official police records.

A good reminder that you can use statistics to say just about anything.

This seems an appropriate time to rel off the old chestnut about how 82% of statistics are made up on the spot. Alternatively, a quick blast of UB40's One In Ten...
 
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well sally...you know...the brits are too propoer to start fights :p

the irish, they fight, but then they sing a song and forget about it heh

so, the scots stay mad a while, call the cops... it gets reported so on and so on :wink:
 
sallycinnamon78 said:
Whoa! :huh: How bizarre.



And the rest of the Uk isn't? :confused:



This seems an appropriate time to rel off the old chestnut about how 82% of statistics are made up on the spot. Alternatively, a quick blast of UB40's One In Ten...

I am the one in ten
A number on a list
I am the one in ten
Even though I don`t exist
Nobody knows me
But I`m always there
A statistical reminder
Of a world that doesn`t care

:(
 
and as a sobering reminder of the gun issue in the USA, someone was shot in the head exactly 3 blocks from where i live at 9:30 on a Saturday night as he was walking his dog.

bluntly, i'd rather get my butt kicked by a bunch of drunk hooligans than shot in the head by a lunatic with a gun in a country that has such a bizzarely fucked-up attitude towards gun ownership.
 
Britain has a pub culture, it's no surprise there are so many fights.

Statistics all depend on what counts as a violent crime. I'd rather take my chances in the UK than in the US for example.

I think it's funny the relationship between England and the rest of the Uk is often misunderstood by a lot of people who don't live here.

I'm pretty sure that most of the fights in scotland were scottish v scottish, rather than scots v english

As for football rivalry, the scots always love to see the English doing badly & likewise, but if it came to the world cup, we always tend to get behind the other national sides.

funnily enough, the Welsh seem to be getting more anti English these days, whereas the English don't really care less what they're up to. sorry boyos.
 
Irvine511 said:
and as a sobering reminder of the gun issue in the USA, someone was shot in the head exactly 3 blocks from where i live at 9:30 on a Saturday night as he was walking his dog.

bluntly, i'd rather get my butt kicked by a bunch of drunk hooligans than shot in the head by a lunatic with a gun in a country that has such a bizzarely fucked-up attitude towards gun ownership.


You haven't been chased by a bunch of kilted men with bagpipes then!


umm

Stop yer wishful thinking, Irvine!!



Lovetown, I'm not going to dignify your amateur and naive summary with much more than...."The Brits" are Scottish, English and Welsh so your post doesn't really make much sense. Also, Scotland has the same pub culture as the north of England, Wales or Ireland. Therefore, as a Scot, I'm pretty offended by your posts. However, I won't resort to violence. :wink:


The Scottish violence is primarly sectarian (Celtic and Rangers, Catholics and Protestants) or within youth gangs. I've lived in Scotland all my life and I feel perfectly safe walking around in the wee hours. I feel far more safe here than I would down in London or Manchester, I can assure you that. You're not going to be jumped or mugged, folks.

Come to Scotland, it's great.

http://www.visitscotland.com/




EDITED to add:

I'm not saying that you're likely to be mugged in London or Manchester, I just constructed that last sentence a bit poorly.
 
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nbcrusader said:
The report is likely based on a per captia measurement using an estimated number of violent incidents vs. official police records.


A good reminder that you can use statistics to say just about anything.


:up: :| :up:
 
I was driving home recently listening, as is my wont, to Radio Five Live. I like its mix of sport and news; I enjoy its whimsical and irreverent style. But the report I heard by James Shaw on the aftermath of the first Rangers/Celtic game of the 2003/4 season was neither whimsical nor irreverent.

“The Old Firm clash at Ibrox” began Shaw “passed without major incident, but behind the scenes the emergency services are dealing with the consequences of something like a low-level war between Rangers and Celtic fans.” Reporting from Monklands Hospital’s accident and emergency unit, on the border of what he described as “mainly Protestant Airdrie and Coatbridge which is historically Catholic”, Shaw went on to catalogue a horrifying list of injuries caused to Rangers and Celtic fans alike by a motley array of weaponry, including a broken bottle, baseball bats and a samurai sword.

What Shaw described was no isolated incident. Unison, many of whose members work in the National Health Service, has reported that on Old Firm match days admissions to accident and emergency units due to injuries caused by assault soar in many different parts of Scotland. The number of physical and verbal attacks on NHS staff also rises on the days of these games.

One of the saddest features of Shaw’s report was his comment that all of this mayhem goes “largely unreported by the media”. What kind of society have we become when we appear to tolerate the intolerable? Can you imagine the public outcry and media frenzy which would ensue if this level of violence was occurring on a regular basis between white and Asian youths? Or between Muslims and Hindus? So why are we so apparently blasé about violence between Catholics and Protestants?

Patently football alone is not responsible for all the sectarian ills in our society. The reality is however that so-called fans of both Rangers and Celtic continue to commit violent offences which are fuelled by sectarian hatred. The clubs themselves would claim to have taken action in recent years to reduce sectarian behaviour amongst their supporters. Celtic have had their Bhoys against Bigotry campaign and more recently Rangers launched their Pride over Prejudice campaign. These initiatives are laudable but clearly much more needs to be done.

the rest of the article:

http://www.nilbymouth.org/files/StatesofScotland.rtf
 
huh. I always felt quite safe as a lone female backpaper whilst in Scotland, be it Edinburgh, Glasgow or Glenfinnan. Safer than I have in most large American cities anyways. :huh:
 
You weren't wearing your Rangers or Celtic shirt, that's why! :wink:
 
When visiting Scotland be safe and wear a Ross County shirt....then you'll be my best friend forever!

Then again, you'll get attacked by Inverness Caledonian fans! Damn, can't win. :wink:



Ewens rough guide to a non violent holiday in Scotland:

1) Don't talk about Scottish football.

2) Don't refer to anything in Scotland as 'English' unless it definitely is English. England is the country south of Scotland that is, along with Scotland and Wales, a part of Great Britain. If you mean British then say 'British' not 'English'. Scottish people are British, they won't be offended but they will be very offended at being called English.

3) Tell everyone you meet how fantastic the country is! :wink:

4) Spend lots of money.

5) Tell everyone that Sean Connery is your favourite actor.

6) Don't ask "do they put the [Edinburgh] castle up specially for the festival?" (yes, I was asked that by an American tourist and I replied "well, lets put it this way, it wasn't there yesterday!")


not a definitive list, but you should survive long enough to return to your homeland.
 
I live in the very street he grew up in, Fountainbridge...there's a disk on the wall of one of the buildings. Sean was indeed a milkman but way before my time. Anyways, I'm from the Highlands and only came down here to Edinburgh some 8 years ago.




At the risk of getting attacked by my fellow violent countrymen, I actually think Sean Connery is a bloody awful actor. But you being foreigners aren't allowed to say that! You have to like him or face the consequences :wink:
 
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