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Old 09-19-2005, 04:38 PM   #1
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... and the world's most violent developed nation is ...

Scotland?

yes, i was surprised too.



Scotland tops list of world's most violent countries
By Katrina Tweedie



A UNITED Nations report has labelled Scotland the most violent country in the developed world, with people three times more likely to be assaulted than in America. England and Wales recorded the second highest number of violent assaults while Northern Ireland recorded the fewest.

The study, based on telephone interviews with victims of crime in 21 countries, found that more than 2,000 Scots were attacked every week, almost ten times the official police figures. They include non-sexual crimes of violence and serious assaults.

Violent crime has doubled in Scotland over the past 20 years and levels, per head of population, are now comparable with cities such as Rio de Janeiro, Johannesburg and Tbilisi.

The attacks have been fuelled by a “booze and blades” culture in the west of Scotland which has claimed more than 160 lives over the past five years. Since January there have been 13 murders, 145 attempted murders and 1,100 serious assaults involving knives in the west of Scotland. The problem is made worse by sectarian violence, with hospitals reporting higher admissions following Old Firm matches.

David Ritchie, an accident and emergency consultant at Glasgow’s Victoria Infirmary, said that the figures were a national disgrace. “I am embarrassed as a Scot that we are seeing this level of violence. Politicians must do something about this problem. This is a serious public health issue. Violence is a cancer in this part of the world,” he said.

Detective Chief Superintendent John Carnochan, head of the Strathclyde Police’s violence reduction unit, said the problem was chronic and restricting access to drink and limiting the sale of knives would at least reduce the problem.

The study, by the UN’s crime research institute, found that 3 per cent of Scots had been victims of assault compared with 1.2 per cent in America and just 0.1 per cent in Japan, 0.2 per cent in Italy and 0.8 per cent in Austria. In England and Wales the figure was 2.8 per cent.

Scotland was eighth for total crime, 13th for property crime, 12th for robbery and 14th for sexual assault. New Zealand had the most property crimes and sexual assaults, while Poland had the most robberies.

Chief Constable Peter Wilson, president of the Association of Chief Police Officers in Scotland, questioned the figures. “It must be near impossible to compare assault figures from one country to the next based on phone calls,” he said.

“We have been doing extensive research into violent crime in Scotland for some years now and this has shown that in the vast majority of cases, victims of violent crime are known to each other. We do accept, however, that, despite your chances of being a victim of assault being low in Scotland, a problem does exist.”


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...786945,00.html
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Old 09-19-2005, 05:49 PM   #2
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well that's interesting!
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Old 09-19-2005, 06:34 PM   #3
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that's interesting to say the least. I wonder what the government figures are on murder, rape, etc. High numbers reporting bar fights doesn't necessarily put you on par with Rio de Janeiro.
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Old 09-19-2005, 06:45 PM   #4
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it doesnt surprise me. Scotland is very much about pub culture. So, it makes sense that there would be lots of bar fights.
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Old 09-19-2005, 06:46 PM   #5
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I'm shocked
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Old 09-19-2005, 06:54 PM   #6
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hello sassykat. I feel like I've seen that avatar before someplace, but I can't imagine where.
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Old 09-19-2005, 07:06 PM   #7
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just want to say that i adore scotland and had a wonderful time there. no fights!
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Old 09-19-2005, 07:13 PM   #8
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"...while Poland had the most robberies."

When prejudices get affirmed

Nothing against Poles
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Old 09-19-2005, 07:17 PM   #9
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As far as murder goes, Scotland is nothing compared to the United States. Over 10,000 people are murdered every year in the United States. The Current murder rate in Scotland has them on pace to have a total of 17 to 18 murders for the entire year. Scotland seemed like a very calm place when I was there and the largest gathering of people all year round during Hogmany was very peaceful. I did not see one fight during the entire festival.
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Old 09-19-2005, 07:18 PM   #10
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The report is likely based on a per captia measurement using an estimated number of violent incidents vs. official police records.


A good reminder that you can use statistics to say just about anything.
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Old 09-19-2005, 10:44 PM   #11
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I thought maybe Ewen would come out of retirement to comment on this one, since we've actually discussed this report amongst ourselves, but since he hasn't, I'll try not to mangle our thoughts on the subject too badly...

(Note: If you're reading this, dear, and I screw something up, please do correct me.)

Ewen has told me that while there are indeed problems with violence (often related to pub and "lad" culture, and very much connected with both football and bad blood between the English and the Scots), reports like this would lead a casual reader to believe that little old ladies are brutally attacked in broad daylight on Princes Street--which couldn't be further from the truth. The Scottish police have decried the report, as the Constable did in the article Irvine originally posted.

From what Ewen has told me about the areas in which contemporary Scottish culture might be seen as violent, it seems to me that, as in most places, if one is not looking for trouble, one can avoid it. I don't feel qualified to comment on any actual problems of violence, and here perhaps Ewen or another of our Scottish posters could chime in, but it seems to me that, as nbc and STING mentioned, some bad methodology and statistics could lead people to be afraid to visit Scotland--and surely there's no reason to be afraid!

BTW, STING, I'll be doing Hogmanay in Edinburgh this year myself and can't wait.
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Old 09-19-2005, 11:22 PM   #12
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Yikes. Somone (the Scottish Tourist industry) needs to dial up Ewan MacGregor and have him do some TV commercials. He could charm people into forgetting the report, in true Ewan fashion....("there's only one dangerous weapon in Scotland, and I'm swinging it , but I can't show it on TV."

And somebody, PLEASE tell me how Northern Ireland can rank so low? Whoever did that report didn't interview anybody during Orange marching Season, esp this yr
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Old 09-20-2005, 02:03 AM   #13
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Whoa! How bizarre.

Quote:
Originally posted by LoveTown
it doesnt surprise me. Scotland is very much about pub culture. So, it makes sense that there would be lots of bar fights.
And the rest of the Uk isn't?

Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
The report is likely based on a per captia measurement using an estimated number of violent incidents vs. official police records.

A good reminder that you can use statistics to say just about anything.
This seems an appropriate time to rel off the old chestnut about how 82% of statistics are made up on the spot. Alternatively, a quick blast of UB40's One In Ten...
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Old 09-20-2005, 06:48 AM   #14
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well sally...you know...the brits are too propoer to start fights

the irish, they fight, but then they sing a song and forget about it heh

so, the scots stay mad a while, call the cops... it gets reported so on and so on
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Old 09-20-2005, 07:43 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by sallycinnamon78
Whoa! How bizarre.



And the rest of the Uk isn't?



This seems an appropriate time to rel off the old chestnut about how 82% of statistics are made up on the spot. Alternatively, a quick blast of UB40's One In Ten...
I am the one in ten
A number on a list
I am the one in ten
Even though I don`t exist
Nobody knows me
But I`m always there
A statistical reminder
Of a world that doesn`t care

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