An Olympic Boycott: would it have any effect at all?

[butter7]

If there are any Tibetans left.

In Tibet, 95% of the population are Tibetan, the rest 5% are Han, Hui (they are muslims), Menba (One male still allow have multi-wives as an exception of the Chinese marriage law).

 

[deep]

You are welcome.

I just hope I could provide a window about what the whole thing was going on among Chinese people, since most people here can't read Chinese, and only could get information from the local media.

The whole Tibet thing really should have be solved as soon as possible. For us who enjoys discussing on the internet forum, it's only a thread, but for the people who live there, it's their families and lives.

Yes,

I think the West likes to exploit this

Even the Dali Lama does not want a "Free Tibet"

Just some autonomy.

Which does not sound like much.

Except it could be a dangerous starting point for the Chinese government.


I believe there are other groups of people in other areas that would want the same thing? Is that true?

 

[martha]

English is the compulsory subject for Chinese kids since primary school. And even kindergarten would have some program of teaching kids some basic English. What's your point about this then?

Chinese has replaced Tibetan as the official language.

http://www.freetibet.org/info/key_issues.html

 

[martha]

In Tibet, 95% of the population are Tibetan, the rest 5% are Han, Hui (they are muslims), Menba (One male still allow have multi-wives as an exception of the Chinese marriage law).

long-term Chinese settlement in Tibet has been deliberately encouraged, with the result that Tibetans are in the minority in many areas. Independent research puts the number of Chinese in the TAR at 5 5.5 million versus 4.5 million Tibetans; in Kham and Amdo, Chinese outnumber Tibetans many times over. Chinese traders are favoured by lower tax assessments and the dominant position of Chinese in government administration.

http://www.freetibet.org/info/key_issues.html

 

[martha]

Even the Dali Lama does not want a "Free Tibet"

Just some autonomy.

You know this from your meetings with him?


What wrong with a little autonomy?

Why are you so hot to defend China?

 

[deep]

I just saw that

I wonder which number is more correct

I don't think the "Free Tibet" site is without bias


I will do some more checking when I have more time

 

[butter7]

Yes,

I think the West likes to exploit this

Even the Dali Lama does not want a "Free Tibet"

Just some autonomy.

Which does not sound like much.

Except it could be a dangerous starting point for the Chinese government.


I believe there are other groups of people in other areas that would want the same thing? Is that true?

The problem about Dalai Lama's "autonomy" is that he want a "Great Tibet", which not only Tibet, but also include Sichuan Province (the largest populated province in China, over 1000 million people living in there), Gansu Province, where Han ethnic people and Hui ethinic people living as the majority. He also demand "remove all non-tibetan" from the region listed above.

These terms wouldn't even made him to the negotiation table.

 

[deep]

You know this from your meetings with him?


What wrong with a little autonomy?

Why are you so hot to defend China?

I did actually hear him speak in 2004

very impressive !



but it was a recent "interview" that I heard him say that he did not want Tibet to break away, be independent from China

he said that "autonomy" was what he sought

so if you are making donations to "Free Tibet" it is not what he prefers

 

[martha]

I'm not donating to anyone.

 

[deep]

The problem about Dalai Lama's "autonomy" is that he want a "Great Tibet", which not only Tibet, but also include Sichuan Province (the largest populated province in China, over 1000 million people living in there), Gansu Province, where Han ethnic people and Hui ethinic people living as the majority. He also demand "remove all non-tibetan" from the region listed above.

These terms wouldn't even made him to the negotiation table.

Thank you for giving us this information

I did not think is was as simple as many think it is.

Even thought it is fun to go to a "Free Tibet" rock concert

and buy a tee- shirt

 

[butter7]

http://www.freetibet.org/info/key_issues.html

martha, if my memory serves me right, the freetibet people also claim that Tibetan kids can't access to any education at all.

I was a fan of this site when I first got to Australia, beccause I couldn't open it in China. lol

But the research result was quite disappointing.

Debate about who has the more correct answer wouldn't have any result, cos we are not the profesionals of statistics. But I strongly suggest you to go to Tibet and have a look yourself. Just avoid the current events and Olympic traffic.

 

[butter7]

Thank you for giving us this information

I did not think is was as simple as many think it is.

Even thought it is fun to go to a "Free Tibet" rock concert

and buy a tee- shirt

LOL, I was the proud first uploader for spreading the U2 performance on the Free-Tibet concert over the Chinese fan forum.

People said it's ironic U2 sang "One" in that concert.

 

[martha]

Debate about who has the more correct answer wouldn't have any result, cos we are not the profesionals of statistics.

I understand what you're saying, but I disagree. Giving up because statistics vary is what governments want.

But I strongly suggest you to go to Tibet and have a look yourself.

When I have the combination of money and time, I will.

 

[deep]

LOL, I was the proud first uploader for spreading the U2 performance on the Free-Tibet concert over the Chinese fan forum.

I thought people went to jail for doing that.

 

[butter7]

I understand what you're saying, but I disagree. Giving up because statistics vary is what governments want.

When I have the combination of money and time, I will.

Tibet is a pretty place, and a lot of peole are really addicted to it. Me too saving up for a Tibet tour.

 

[butter7]

I thought people went to jail for doing that.

Not really. But people would be send behind bars if they spread information for seperate the country with large public audience (like what Bjork did in Shanghai concert, she got away because she's a foreigner), or organise similar kind of campaign/movement/party...etc. It was clearly stated in the Chinese law that it's a crime would result 5 years life sentence.

As a individual, it's perfectly okay. But I did got some bashes for uploading it, some people fears that this would result a U2-ban in China. But the concern was vanished after free-tibet concert bands Sonic Youth and Rolling Stone hold their concerts sucessfully in Shanghai.

Besides, I personally don't believe the Dalai Lama loving U2 boys would ever consider hold a concert in the communist China, so, it's all okay.

 

[Bluer White]

Since 1950, an estimated 1.2 million Tibetans have been killed by the Chinese.

Lack of solid demographic evidence seriously calls this claim into question. The paper I'm linking believes that the Tibetans may have overestimated their own population by 650K to 770K in the early 1950's. So naturally when a census is taken 10 or 20 years later and a bunch of people are missing, this may explain (some) of the reason why.

Page 12 & 13 are fairly digestible, and 9 & 10 are helpful as well.

http://www.case.edu/affil/tibet/booksAndPapers/tibetan.population.in.china.pdf

 

[martha]

You guys are right. Nothing bad is happening in Tibet. No one is being killed, no one is losing their language, religion is safe from persecution. It's all puppies and butterflies, with the Chinese government taking a lead on human rights in the region. They're working to make the Tibetans a happy people, free from all worry.

 

[butter7]

In Paris.

The girl who was carring the torch was sitting on her wheelchair, she's an athlete with only one leg. The guy in the white shirt is an athlete too, and he's blind.

I guess that's the peaceful protest that Dalai Lama was referring to.

 

[martha]

You're clueless.

 

[butter7]

You're clueless.

So quick run for a personal attack, uh?

 

[martha]

So quick run for a personal attack, uh?

So the Dalai Lama authorized the protest in Paris?

 

[deep]

The protests of the Olympic torch carriers are asinine.


And this is not helping solve the issues in Tibet.

 

[anitram]

As thousands of pro-Tibet protesters cut short the Olympic torch relay Monday in Paris, a new Zogby Interactive poll finds 70% of likely voters believe the International Olympic Committee was wrong to award this year’s summer Olympic Games to China because of its poor record on human rights. Dissatisfaction with the IOC’s choice is strong across the political spectrum, with 70% of Democrats and Republicans, and 68% of political independents who said they disagree with the decision to have China host the summer games. A Zogby Interactive poll conducted in May 2007 found 44% had a favorable opinion of the IOC’s decision to award the 2008 Summer Olympic Games to China, while 39% viewed the decision unfavorably.

 

[deep]

the percentage will most likely go higher

Hillary noticed and made her statement this morning

let's not forget that W had a 90% plus rating at one time


there is nothing new here

all these facts were known when the games were awarded

to include politics with the Olympics is the wrong thing to do


I do remember first hand the 1980 boycott of the Moscow Olympics because of the Soviets involvement in Afghanistan,

I also remember very well, the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics I attended the opening and about 20 different events

There was an Eastern Bloc boycott in response to the 1980 boycott


I realized then after 80 and 84,
that boycotts and politics were counter productive after the games were awarded.

Each host country will have its own set of issues that others will consider unacceptable.

Will every Olympics have to be disrupted?

or is it better to leave the political fights to the proper venue and not punish athletes and damage this positive event.

the original games, I believe went on in times of war, the enemies would take a break and compete.

Gamesmanship should be on the field not in the streets.

 

[BoMac]

The Olympics were brought back as a way to bridge the divide between nations, and foster a sense of belonging, so yes, for better or worse politics will always be tied to this event.

And anyone denying that the Tibetan culture and religion are being slowly wiped out are kidding themselves, or believing what much of the Chinese media wants you to believe. For those who are interested, you should check out a great Canadian documentary called "What Remains of Us", which was shot with hidden cameras inside Tibet.

 

[deep]

Jimmy Carter calls for U.S. boycott of Moscow Olympics

On January 20, 1980, in protest of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, President Jimmy Carter announced that U.S. athletes would not attend the Summer Olympic Games in Moscow unless Soviet forces... On January 20, 1980, in protest of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, President Jimmy Carter announced that U.S. athletes would not attend the Summer Olympic Games in Moscow unless Soviet forces withdrew from Afghanistan by February 20. The arrival of the deadline coincided with the Winter Olympics in Lake Placid, New York, where events, such as the amateur U.S. hockey team's ''Miracle on Ice'' victory over the Soviet super-team, demonstrated the undeniable propaganda potential of the Olympics. On April 22, with the Soviet military presence in Afghanistan only increasing, the U.S. Olympic Committee voted 1,604 to 797 to support Carter and boycott the Moscow Games. The next day, a number of disappointed U.S. athletes and coaches filed a class action suit to block the boycott, but the suit was dismissed in mid-May. Forty-four other nations eventually joined the United States in refusing to send their athletes to the Moscow Games, which carried on without the presence of many of the world's greatest athletes.

I do remember enthusiastically supporting this.

It probably had something like 90+% popular support.


It was stupid.

It only devastated many young athletes dreams.

It did nothing to get the Soviets out of Afghanistan.

 

[BoMac]

It was stupid.

It only devastated many young athletes dreams.

It did nothing to get the Soviets out of Afghanistan.

/\ could that be somebody that remembers 1980 and 1984


I do recall when Carter told those Soviets
if you don't leave Afghanistan by XYZ we will boycott Moscow 1980 Olympics

being a young lad that hated those Commies and loved the Afghan freedom fighters, I was all gung ho on that boycott.

well, guess what

it worked, the Soviets pulled right out of Afghanistan lickedy split.

Carter was re-elected
and the Communist behaved themselves everafter

 

[Salome]

an Olympic boycott wouldn't solve anything but it would at least be a strong sign

boycotting the opening ceremony is - IMO - quite hypocritical
it's an empty action

the people protesting the olympic torch being carried through the world ........... i don't get them at all

 

[butter7]

So the Dalai Lama authorized the protest in Paris?

Did he blamed the use of violence? Or he just selective-blind to certain things?