An Interesting Twist In The Whole "Gun Control" Issue - Page 3 - U2 Feedback

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Old 10-24-2002, 09:48 PM   #31
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Originally posted by Angela Harlem
Yeah whatever, punished to the full extent of the law.

Tell me why this newspaper guy is not guilty. He shot someone.

QED.
Uh, because it was in self defense.
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Old 10-24-2002, 11:22 PM   #32
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Please review previous posts in the thread before posting. Thank you.
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Old 10-24-2002, 11:50 PM   #33
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Who? What happened?
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Old 10-25-2002, 12:18 AM   #34
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two wrongs dont make a right. If neither of them had a gun noone would have been shot.

(i know this may be ideologically correct rather than practical)

Anyone off the street can just walk in and get a shotgun? my goodness. i think thats the problem.
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Old 10-25-2002, 03:47 AM   #35
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Now, on to what happened last night: we are hearing down here in Alabama that one or both of the suspects in the Maryland/D.C./Virginia shootings robbed a liquor store in Montgomery, Alabama back in September, and in the process killed one clerk and wounded another. Now I realize that we need to be sensitive to the needs, feelings, and safety of violent armed robbers, but I personally almost wish that one of the clerks at the liquor store in Montgomery had been armed and blown these two guys' faces off. If so, it is possible that none of the other shootings would occur.
But then again, if the sniper would not have had the opportunity to buy his weapon in every regular gun store in the country, the shootings maybe also wouldn't have occurred. What I've heard, the weapon used can be bought in any gun store (just like the bullets) and until the fourth or fifth shooting many people (experts) said that almost anyone (without experience) could have fired the shots.
So with gun control those in the liquor store cannot buy weapons so easily, but neither can the sniper.

C ya!

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Old 10-25-2002, 08:02 AM   #36
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Can I ask someone what type of guns are exactly freely available over the counter? Bama mentioned rifles in sporting goods stores, but what about handguns? Are there stricter regulations on purchasing those? Just curious.
Popmartijn its a good point you raised. I agree totally in the less guns = less crime theory, but I think its a bit naive I guess, to reduce the issue to that alone.
You have to start with ownership and responsibility, the right to own a gun shouldn't be an option to just any one. I know people aren't born with criminal records, but shouldn't more care be taken with who is issued one and who isn't? Clerks and service station workers for example shouldn't need to own their own guns just to feel safe - homeowners too. Broken record time again, but the justice system. Its too idealistic to think you can get rid of the scumbag factor in those who threaten and steal their way through life. Removing guns is only one possible answer. Crims will just use a knife or baseball bat or lead pipe to get what they want. Free and easy access to guns just seems a bit too easy.
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Old 10-25-2002, 09:57 AM   #37
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But then again, if the sniper would not have had the opportunity to buy his weapon in every regular gun store in the country, the shootings maybe also wouldn't have occurred.
Marty
I do not agree with this. If guns are outlawed, then only the criminals will have them. If a bad guy wants to get his hand on a firearm bad enough, he will.
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Old 10-25-2002, 10:15 AM   #38
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I do not agree with this. If guns are outlawed, then only the criminals will have them. If a bad guy wants to get his hand on a firearm bad enough, he will.
But do you just dismiss the fact that in a number of Western countries, guns are not available for wholesale, and the murder rates are way, way lower than in the USA?

To quote from TWW: "If you combine the populations of Great Britain, France, Germany, Japan, Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark and Australia, you'll get a population roughly the size of the United States. We had 32,000 gun deaths last year. They had 112. Do you think it's because Americans are more homicidal by nature? Or do you think it's because those guys have gun control laws?"
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Old 10-25-2002, 10:15 AM   #39
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I do not agree with this. If guns are outlawed, then only the criminals will have them. If a bad guy wants to get his hand on a firearm bad enough, he will.
True.
But if a good guy really wants to have a firearm then he will get one. Still, when it's more difficult to get a gun, then that will deter people from buying them. It will prevent spur of the moment purchases. How easy will it be to get a Bushmaster? It's not your average handgun.

Furthermore, if only the really hard criminals can get their hands on firearms, it will get safer (IMO). It's an awful feeling when someone points a gun at you, but I'd rather choose to get confronted by a hard criminal than some amateur with shaking hands who pulls the trigger the moment you sneeze.

Outlawing guns will not prevent all shootings, but they will reduce the danger.

C ya!

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Old 10-25-2002, 11:37 AM   #40
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I'm an advocate of gun control, but the sniper shootings would not have been prevented by any gun control laws. The man was in the military and he was using what can be considered a hunting rifle, and hunting rifles will never be covered under gun control laws. The ammunition can be legislated but this time of the year runs under certain hunting seasons so that would not have even help. This was a result of an angry individual who's problem was never taken care of early on.

Now as far as people saying "if a criminal wants a gun they can get a gun" this is true, but where do you think the majority of blackmarket guns come from? They come from legitamate gun manufacturers. The flow to the black market can be control somewhat, if certain gun control laws go into affect. The thing is if the supply of black market of guns became significanly less the price would sky rocket and your everyday street hustler would not be able to afford guns.
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Old 10-25-2002, 11:43 AM   #41
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Originally posted by anitram


But do you just dismiss the fact that in a number of Western countries, guns are not available for wholesale, and the murder rates are way, way lower than in the USA?

To quote from TWW: "If you combine the populations of Great Britain, France, Germany, Japan, Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark and Australia, you'll get a population roughly the size of the United States. We had 32,000 gun deaths last year. They had 112. Do you think it's because Americans are more homicidal by nature? Or do you think it's because those guys have gun control laws?"
I think in the US the guns are already 'out there' in the population in great supply. In those other countries...were the guns already out there in the populace? Just asking. In the days before strict gun control in the UK wouldn't someone owning a gun be a rare thing? Again just asking. Here someone owning a gun has always been pretty much the norm. To suddenly have gun control laws restricting the future firearms purchases would have no effect on the guns that are already 'out there' legally and illegally in the hands of law abiding and criminal types alike.

Unless you want some kind of government roundup of guns...and that would be impossible. There are so many people who purchased guns in the days before registration and all such laws were in effect...how could they possibly find them all?

I do believe there is something rotten at the core of American society but its not the guns themselves. Canada has as many guns as we do...but not the gun violence. We used to have less gun control...and less gun violence. In the days when I was in high school...if a kid was going hunting after school he could have the rifle in the back of his car in the high school parking lot...AND NO ONE SHOT UP THE SCHOOL!

Yes..something is wrong here. Guns are part of it but it goes much deeper than that.



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Old 10-25-2002, 12:30 PM   #42
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i cant say much for other countries, but Australia was known as a gun carrying society, probably similar to America, until 1996 and the Port Arthur massacre. I think approximatley 600,000 semi automatic guns were surrended in the amnesty that followed the tighter gun controls. It looks liker they are about to do the same with handguns and hunting guns are now completed regulated and controlled.
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Old 10-25-2002, 04:30 PM   #43
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As long as you have things like the Colombine shooting or the Washington shooting happening, i think gun control IS the right way to go.

I just don't think it's a good idea to make it possible for all kinds of maniacs/messed up kids to just go out there and buy a lethal weapon in a store. And who knows how many accidental shootings/deaths happen when children play with guns at home. Even people qualified for weapon use can make a mistake (you know, how a person will claim "but it's not loaded!" and fire away at someone).

Regarding self defense: i agree you have a right to defend yourself if a criminal goes after you, but on the other hand, i can't imagine myself shooting someone or even killing him. (we don't have any kind of arms in our house anyway) Most likely i would freeze and just let the criminal take whatever he wants.

Also, if you're at home and an armed burglar breaks in - isn't it more likely you'll get hurt too if you have a weapon than if you don't? I mean, you're scared, it's a stressful situation - who's to say you'll hit the burglar with the first shot - you're probably less used to using a weapon than most burglars - and who's to say you'll get a second chance to shoot again?

I'd rather take my chances unarmed than definitely risk my life.

PS: The article says the burglar's gun dropped on the floor plus he fell down once already. Then why shoot him dead? He could have easily shot him in the legs, arms (after the first 3 shots i mean), puch the guy with the rifle butt doesn't say he had any other weapons on him.
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Old 10-25-2002, 05:35 PM   #44
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my 2 cents...

1) i agree there should be VERY strict gun control. but it is not the end all.

2) anyone who wants to kill someone - CAN! it doesnt take a gun! there are millions of effective methods to execute someone.

3) i get the feeling that people think if the states had gun control everything would be safer...i highly doubt it. anyone who really wants a gun will get a gun.

and like i said before, someone who is serious about killing will find a substitue method.
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Old 10-25-2002, 06:16 PM   #45
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2) anyone who wants to kill someone - CAN! it doesnt take a gun! there are millions of effective methods to execute someone.
3) i get the feeling that people think if the states had gun control everything would be safer...i highly doubt it. anyone who really wants a gun will get a gun.

This is true for Cain killed Able and there were no guns or gun control. But the point is, that it makes it a lot harder. Guns allow someone to kill from long distance and never really "feel" the affect of taking someone's life. Plus it's much easier to defend yourself against a knife or baseball bat, or whatever than it is a gun. Also "heat of the moment" killings would decrease.

I don't think anyone is arguing that gun control will save the nation, it just makes it a little harder, and over time will reduce the level of crime.
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