An Inconvenient Electric Bill - Page 4 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-27-2007, 03:37 PM   #46
Breakdancing Soul Pilgrim
 
UberBeaver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: the most serious...douch hammer ever
Posts: 20,318
Local Time: 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YjI4NTc0YWMzNTA3ZjRmYmJiMDRjNmI5MGEwZTFhM2E
Inconvenient Truths
Novel science fiction on global warming.

By Patrick J. Michaels
According to Harper's magazine, Michaels has recieved over $115,000 over the past four years from coal and oil interests.

http://www.exxonsecrets.org/html/per...sheet.php?id=4
__________________

__________________
UberBeaver is offline  
Old 02-27-2007, 03:38 PM   #47
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 01:18 PM
Quote:
But the real worst case that the once (and future?) politician presents is the breakup and melting of the two massive ice sheets that cover Greenland and Antarctica
From Wikipedia
Quote:
The fjords of the southern part of [Greenland] were lush and had a warmer climate at that time [c. 984 AD], possibly due to what was called the Medieval Warm Period. These remote communities thrived and lived off farming, hunting and trading...
Medieval Warm Period? How did we cause that?
__________________

__________________
INDY500 is offline  
Old 02-27-2007, 03:39 PM   #48
Blue Crack Supplier
 
elevated_u2_fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: I'm here 'cus I don't want to go home
Posts: 31,691
Local Time: 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
so ... the message you take from that is to absolve yourself from any responsibility for owning and operating an SUV?
Thank you. Any time someone does this it really annoys me...

It's like just because Al Gore uses allot of power totally negates the whole argument...
__________________
elevated_u2_fan is online now  
Old 02-27-2007, 03:42 PM   #49
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 11:18 AM
Is this really an issue?

Would it make any difference if Gore were off the grid, like the unibomber?

What is the goal?

We need government mandates to effect the carbon in the atmosphere.

Sure it doesn't hurt if Ed Begley Jr. rides a bike and uses an electric car.

Gore's film has accomplished much more that Begley ever has.


It was government mandates that saved lives be outlawing lead in paint and gasoline.
Not individuals choosing to go lead-free themselves.

The same can be said of the catalytic converters that became mandated in the seventies

Also, about Gore's consumption,
How large is his property, most likely there are security lights that are on all night.

Is he holding meetings and running his projects out of there?

Is the average home in his area a trailer?

This is just fodder for the low-brow Limbaugh and Fox News spoon fed audience.
__________________
deep is offline  
Old 02-27-2007, 03:42 PM   #50
Breakdancing Soul Pilgrim
 
UberBeaver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: the most serious...douch hammer ever
Posts: 20,318
Local Time: 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
[B
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110008597 [/B]
Don't Believe the Hype
Al Gore is wrong. There's no "consensus" on global warming.

BY RICHARD S. LINDZEN

......

Ross Gelbspan, journalist and author, wrote a 1995 article in Harper's Magazine which was very critical of Lindzen and other global warming skeptics. In the article, Gelbspan reports Lindzen charged "oil and coal interests $2,500 a day for his consulting services; [and] his 1991 trip to testify before a Senate committee was paid for by Western Fuels and a speech he wrote, entitled 'Global Warming: the Origin and Nature of Alleged Scientific Consensus,' was underwritten by OPEC."
__________________
UberBeaver is offline  
Old 02-27-2007, 03:45 PM   #51
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
Justin24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Mateo
Posts: 6,716
Local Time: 12:18 PM
Don't you think underwater volcanos have something to do with ice caps melting besides the contribution of man?
__________________
Justin24 is offline  
Old 02-27-2007, 03:46 PM   #52
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,471
Local Time: 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by INDY500
Medieval Warm Period? How did we cause that?


okay, this drives me crazy, and here's why. obviously, there were no fossil fuels used in medieval times. obviously global climate is a complex thing that can be influenced by a variety of factors. it's also obviously true that small abnormalities don't indicate that whatever cycle (warming or cooling) is occuring is any less likely to occur.

what is irritating is when people point out certain abnormalities that only seemingly run contrary to the overall (and not credibly disputed) hypothesis that human activity is having a warming effect upon the globe and use this to attempt to disprove the entire hypothesis -- George Will does this quite a bit with global warming, he likes to point to, say, a thickening of the ice caps of Greenland to, in his mind, downplay the significance of icebergs the size of Buenos Aries breaking off of Antarctica -- in order to absolve themselves of their own responsibility as a member of the most consumptive nation in the history of planet earth.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 02-27-2007, 03:52 PM   #53
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 11:18 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
Don't you think underwater volcanos have something to do with ice caps melting besides the contribution of man?
the sun is making them melt, too

of the three?

which one can we do something about to prevent the increase in the melting that is having negative effects?
__________________
deep is offline  
Old 02-27-2007, 03:53 PM   #54
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
Justin24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Mateo
Posts: 6,716
Local Time: 12:18 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by deep


the sun is making them melt, too

of the three?

which one can we do something about to prevent the increasing melting that is having negative effects?
So then do you recommend we get rid of all our cars and go by wagon again. And dosen't volcanos spew out as deadly toxins as car emissions?
__________________
Justin24 is offline  
Old 02-27-2007, 03:56 PM   #55
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 11:18 AM
Do you know what a catalytic converter is?
__________________
deep is offline  
Old 02-27-2007, 03:58 PM   #56
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Vincent Vega's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Berlin
Posts: 6,615
Local Time: 08:18 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by INDY500


From Wikipedia


Medieval Warm Period? How did we cause that?
Oh my God, that's hilarious.

No expert claiming that the climatic change is happening and that we have our share in causing it, denies any warming periods, or ice ages, over the past thousands of years.

But one has to be blatantly ignorant in claiming that our pollution of the world comes totally accidentally with a new warming period, and the known effects of the greenhouse effects caused by blasting CO2 and other chemicals into the stratosphere has no impact.

Maybe there are some effects accompanying the global warming that aren't manmade. But it doesn't change the fact, that we with our over-consumption of fuels and pollution of the air we breath, don't change the future we will haveto live in to our disadvantage.
__________________
Vincent Vega is offline  
Old 02-27-2007, 03:58 PM   #57
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,471
Local Time: 02:18 PM
there are so many simple, small steps that one can take in order to reduce one's "carbon footprint," and it blows my mind when people present reality as SUV vs. Covered Wagons.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 02-27-2007, 04:00 PM   #58
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
Justin24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Mateo
Posts: 6,716
Local Time: 12:18 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by deep
Do you know what a catalytic converter is?
supposed to reduce emissions.

Quote:
Criticisms of catalytic converters
Catalytic converters have proven to be reliable devices and have been successful in reducing noxious tailpipe emissions. However, they have two adverse environmental impacts in use (ignoring the pollution caused in their manufacture, which would not exist were they not produced):

The requirement for the engine to run at the stoichiometric point means fuel economy is not as good as that of a "lean burn" engine running at a mixture of 20:1 or weaker. This increases the rate at which fossil fuel resources are consumed and the carbon dioxide emissions of the vehicle.
Catalytic converters are estimated to account for 50% of total nitrous oxide (dinitrogen oxide, 'laughing gas') emissions to atmosphere. While N2O emissions in these concentrations are not harmful to human health, it is a potent greenhouse gas, accounting for around 7% of the overall greenhouse effect despite its small concentration in the atmosphere.
Therefore one conclusion is that catalysts have reduced toxic emissions and the incidence of smog at the expense of increased global greenhouse gases.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalytic_converter
__________________
Justin24 is offline  
Old 02-27-2007, 04:02 PM   #59
Blue Crack Supplier
 
elevated_u2_fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: I'm here 'cus I don't want to go home
Posts: 31,691
Local Time: 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
Don't you think underwater volcanos have something to do with ice caps melting besides the contribution of man?
Dude.. You have got to be kidding me!!!

Even if for some bizarre reason all this "Global Warming" talk is complete bullshit, is there something wrong with taking care of this planet we live on?

Instead of saying "it was broke when I found it, oh well" what is wrong with actually doing something?
__________________
elevated_u2_fan is online now  
Old 02-27-2007, 04:07 PM   #60
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 01:18 PM
Quote:
the most consumptive nation in the history of planet earth.
Only because we are also the most productive nation in the history of the planet Earth. We are also the richest and enjoy the greatest standard of living in the history or the planet Earth. I'm proud of that.

But some people have a problem with that, and it is that very guilt, or envy (depending on if you live here or not) that much of us "skeptics" see as pushing this issue forward more than any science.
Did the Earth warm by 0.7 degrees Celsius in the 20th century?
Yes.
Was this manmade or cyclical?
I'm not sure.
Is this necessarily even a bad thing?
Again I'm not sure.
Shouldn't we be doing something?
What are the costs? What would be the results?
__________________

__________________
INDY500 is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com