An Inconvenient Electric Bill

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Oh, the number is increasing.

Well, then let's go on destroying their surrounidngs.
 
A_Wanderer said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/03/09/wpolar09.xml
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it amazes me when people post things about burgeoning animal populations or say things like, "remember the acid rain that was supposed to kill us all and it didn't? hype! all of it! hype!"

this is great evidence that environmental regulations work.
 
From Drudge of coarse.

Scientists threatened for 'climate denial'
By Tom Harper, Sunday Telegraph
11/03/2007

Scientists who questioned mankind's impact on climate change have received death threats and claim to have been shunned by the scientific community.

They say the debate on global warming has been "hijacked" by a powerful alliance of politicians, scientists and environmentalists who have stifled all questioning about the true environmental impact of carbon dioxide emissions.

Timothy Ball, a former climatology professor at the University of Winnipeg in Canada, has received five deaths threats by email since raising concerns about the degree to which man was affecting climate change.

One of the emails warned that, if he continued to speak out, he would not live to see further global warming.

"Western governments have pumped billions of dollars into careers and institutes and they feel threatened," said the professor.

"I can tolerate being called a sceptic because all scientists should be sceptics, but then they started calling us deniers, with all the connotations of the Holocaust. That is an obscenity. It has got really nasty and personal."

Last week, Professor Ball appeared in The Great Global Warming Swindle, a Channel 4 documentary in which several scientists claimed the theory of man-made global warming had become a "religion", forcing alternative explanations to be ignored.

Richard Lindzen, the professor of Atmospheric Science at Massachusetts Institute of Technology - who also appeared on the documentary - recently claimed: "Scientists who dissent from the alarmism have seen their funds disappear, their work derided, and themselves labelled as industry stooges.

"Consequently, lies about climate change gain credence even when they fly in the face of the science."

Dr Myles Allen, from Oxford University, agreed. He said: "The Green movement has hijacked the issue of climate change. It is ludicrous to suggest the only way to deal with the problem is to start micro managing everyone, which is what environmentalists seem to want to do."

Nigel Calder, a former editor of New Scientist, said: "Governments are trying to achieve unanimity by stifling any scientist who disagrees. Einstein could not have got funding under the present system."
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By chance, did anyone in the U.K. catch this show? It's not likely to be show here in the states.
 
What kills me about this whole "other factors" argument is that there is no clear-cut answer...

It's all about "cycles" and "natural warming trends" and all this crap about how there was a warming period in 1756 or whatever.

So, if the theory is that this is just some kind of "natural cycle" we are in, just how long are we expected to wait?
 
30 years, if it's solar we will trough out into a solar low, if it's atmospheric CO2 then we will keep warming.
 
Al Gore's green home improvements

Story Highlights
• Gore got approval to install 33 solar panels on the roof of his Tennessee home
• Gore also upgrading the furnace, windows, light switches, and heating system
• Bought in 2002, Gore's home is more than 70 years old

NASHVILLE, Tennessee (AP) -- Former Vice President Al Gore's upscale neighborhood granted the environmental activist approval Tuesday to install 33 solar panels on the roof of his mansion.

The city of Belle Meade, Tennessee, had blocked his application until new rules were approved unanimously late Tuesday, said Gore spokesman Chris Song. The city, located within metropolitan Nashville, said the panels must be placed in areas where they can't be seen by neighbors.

Gore, who starred in the documentary film "An Inconvenient Truth" about global warming, already buys enough energy from renewable energy sources such as solar, wind and methane gas to balance 100 percent of his electricity costs.

He is also upgrading the furnace, windows, and light switches, as well as installing new floor radiant heat and solar vents, to improve the home's energy standards, said Kalee Kreider, a Gore spokeswoman.

The home, bought by Gore in 2002, is more than 70 years old and illustrates the challenges of renovating an older home to conserve more energy, Kreider said.

"It's obviously easier to build a green home from the get-go," she said. "When you purchase an older home, these retrofits take a lot longer."
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Al Gore is an American politician. Al Gore is a wealthy man. Al Gore has a big house. Al Gore has a big footprint. Al Gore has taken major steps to reduce his footprint.

But why do we expect more than that?

I get so sick of people who call activists like Bono and Gore hypocrites for trivial bullshit without taking into account the enormous amount of good that they do in the world.

At least they're trying. What are you doing?
 
LPU2 said:
Al Gore is an American politician. Al Gore is a wealthy man. Al Gore has a big house. Al Gore has a big footprint. Al Gore has taken major steps to reduce his footprint.

But why do we expect more than that?

I get so sick of people who call activists like Bono and Gore hypocrites for trivial bullshit without taking into account the enormous amount of good that they do in the world.

At least they're trying. What are you doing?
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Well it's just easier for humans to do that than it is to think about and admit what they aren't doing themselves. I say clean your own house before you talk about how dirty someone else's is.
 
MrsSpringsteen said:


I say clean your own house before you talk about how dirty someone else's is.
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Isn't that exactly what people are saying to Gore?
 
Irvine511 said:

it amazes me when people post things about burgeoning animal populations or say things like, "remember the acid rain that was supposed to kill us all and it didn't? hype! all of it! hype!"

this is great evidence that environmental regulations work.
Click to expand...
Not until the cause is established.
 
Huffington Post

by Sheryl Crow and Laurie David 4/22

Last night Thelma and Louise drove the bus off the cliff or at least into the White House Correspondents Dinner. The "highlight" of the evening had to be when we were introduced to Karl Rove. How excited were we to have our first opportunity ever to talk directly to the Bush Administration about global warming.

We asked Mr. Rove if he would consider taking a fresh look at the science of global warming. Much to our dismay, he immediately got combative. And it went downhill from there.

We reminded the senior White House advisor that the US leads the world in global warming pollution and we are doing the least about it. Anger flaring, Mr. Rove immediately regurgitated the official Administration position on global warming which is that the US spends more on researching the causes than any other country.

We felt compelled to remind him that the research is done and the results are in (www.IPCC.ch). Mr. Rove exploded with even more venom. Like a spoiled child throwing a tantrum, Mr. Rove launched into a series of illogical arguments regarding China not doing enough thus neither should we. (Since when do we follow China's lead?)

At some point during his ramblings, we became heartbroken to think that the President of the United States and his top advisers have partially built a career on global warming not being real. We have been telling college students across the country for the past two weeks that government does not change until people demand it... well, listen up folks, everyone had better get a lot louder because the message clearly is not getting through.

In his attempt to dismiss us, Mr. Rove turned to head toward his table, but as soon as he did so, Sheryl reached out to touch his arm. Karl swung around and spat, "Don't touch me." How hardened and removed from reality must a person be to refuse to be touched by Sheryl Crow? Unphased, Sheryl abruptly responded, "You can't speak to us like that, you work for us." Karl then quipped, "I don't work for you, I work for the American people." To which Sheryl promptly reminded him, "We are the American people."

At that point Mr. Rove apparently decided he had had enough. Like a groundhog fearful of his own shadow, he scurried to his table in an attempt to hibernate for another year from his responsibility to address global warming. Drama aside, you would expect as an American citizen to be able to engage in a civil discussion with a public official. Instead, Mr. Rove was dismissive, condescending, and quite frankly a bully.

Ultimately, we were left wondering what on Earth Mr. Rove was talking about when he said "the American people." If more than 60% of American voters, the Supreme Court, over 400 cities, the US National Academy of Sciences, numerous major US corporations, and others don't constitute the American people, then what does? The truth is, if this administration cared one iota about the American people, they would have addressed this problem long ago, and the sad reality is that this problem has been left to us, all of us, since the current administration has abandoned this issue entirely. In the absence of true leadership, we must guide ourselves. We can solve this, but we had better act fast.
 
WASHINGTON — Republican presidential hopeful John McCain is calling the United States' foreign-oil reliance and global warming twin threats the country must aggressively confront.

"National security depends on energy security," the Arizona senator says in a speech he is to give Monday in which he suggests the country can't achieve either if it remains dependent on oil-rich Middle Eastern nations linked to terrorists.

"Al-Qaida must revel in the irony that America is effectively helping to fund both sides of the war they caused. As we sacrifice blood and treasure, some of our gas dollars flow to the fanatics who build the bombs, hatch the plots, and carry out attacks on our soldiers and citizens," McCain says. "The transfer of American wealth to the Middle East helps sustain the conditions on which terrorists prey."

He also terms global warming "a serious and urgent economic, environmental and national security challenge" and adds that "the problem isn't a Hollywood invention," according to excerpts of planned remarks his campaign made available Sunday.

The speech in Washington is the third and final policy address McCain is giving as he seeks to inject momentum into his campaign. An official presidential announcement tour is planned for this week in early primary states even though he has been campaigning for months.

Once considered the presumptive GOP front-runner, McCain now trails in national polls and money. In recent weeks, he also has faced criticism for his staunch support of President Bush's Iraq troop buildup and his assessment of progress in securing Baghdad.

In the speech, McCain casts U.S. energy policy in national security terms as he seeks to portray himself as the best person to keep the country safe.

The senator singles out Iran and Venezuela as examples of nations that because of their oil wealth _ and their ability to hold that over the United States' head _ have no incentives to change their troublesome ways and open their economies and governments.

"The politics of oil impede the global progress of our values, and restrains governments from acting on the most basic impulses of human decency," McCain says.

He promises to propose an energy policy akin to "a declaration of independence from the fear bred by our reliance on oil sheiks and our vulnerability to the troubled politics of the lands they rule."

McCain also promotes his climate-change legislation that would set caps on carbon and other greenhouse gas emissions and offer incentives for industries to come up with new energy sources.

"The world is already feeling the powerful effects of global warming, and far more dire consequences are predicted if we let the growing deluge of greenhouse gas emissions continue, and wreak havoc with Gods creation," he says.
 
MrsSpringsteen said:
WASHINGTON — Republican presidential hopeful John McCain is calling the United States' foreign-oil reliance and global warming twin threats the country must aggressively confront.

"National security depends on energy security," the Arizona senator says in a speech he is to give Monday in which he suggests the country can't achieve either if it remains dependent on oil-rich Middle Eastern nations linked to terrorists.

"Al-Qaida must revel in the irony that America is effectively helping to fund both sides of the war they caused. As we sacrifice blood and treasure, some of our gas dollars flow to the fanatics who build the bombs, hatch the plots, and carry out attacks on our soldiers and citizens," McCain says. "The transfer of American wealth to the Middle East helps sustain the conditions on which terrorists prey."
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but i thought we just invaded Iraq to make the world safe for Persian Gulf oil! oil is the blood of the oil economy! it must be safeguarded at all costs!
 
Sheryl, I don't have a square to spare:

http://news.bostonherald.com/columnists/view.bg?articleid=196385

Let Crow be 1st to play 1-Square
By Margery Eagan
Boston Herald Columnist

Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - Updated: 12:21 AM EST

So Sheryl Crow, singer turned anti-global warming warrior, wants to limit everyone’s toilet paper use to “one square per restroom visit.” Surely she jests.

“I just got back from the men’s room and could not come close to Sheryl Crow’s accomplishment,” says my buddy Al from Athol. ‘Clearly she has mastered the ability to conduct remarkably precise movements with immaculate results . . . She’s the Rolex of human plumbing.”

“Growing up, because of our septic tank, my father had the four-squares-per-visit rule,” says Cindy Gilpatric of Northboro. “And we did it. But one square? That’s ridiculous.”



Nonetheless, that’s our limit, Crow said during her national Stop Global Warming College Tour - the one that required three tractor-trailers, four buses and six cars - the coast-to-coast equivalent of about 7 zillion Charmin squares, I’d say, two-ply.

“I propose a limitation be put,” Crow said, “on how many squares can be used in any one sitting.”

So to speak.

She also believes paper napkins “represent the height of wastefulness” and so has designed a clothing line featuring a detachable “dining sleeve.” Wearers can use it to wipe their mouths while eating, then go home, detach the sleeve, wash it, and put it back on.

No word on whether Crow herself wears dining sleeves or bans napkins when she orders up - for that same megagas guzzling “environmental” tour -her dressing room requirements. To list a few: fresh (not canned) carrot, mango, orange or protein drinks; nonsparkling mineral water (“preferably not Evian” and “PLEASE DO NOT CHILL”), 12 bottles Grolsch beer, 6 bottles local beer, one bottle each of “good Australian cabernet,” “good merlot,” Makers Mark bourbon, Bombay gin and Courvoisier brandy.

No word either on whether Crow’s home, like anti-global warming warrior-in-chief Al Gore, uses 20 times more electricity than the average American’s does. One can only hope some crack investigative team is on the case.

For surely there is nothing more annoying than being lectured by millionaire hypocrites traipsing about America with 18-wheelers and buses and great big cars . . . on using one square of toilet paper vs. say, paper towels, the quicker picker-uppers.

To be fair: one of Sheryl’s buses is a bio-diesel.

Big deal.

You know once upon a time Sheryl just wanted “to have some fun.” On Santa Monica Boulevard. Do you think “dining sleeves” and “one-square” rules drove Lance Armstrong out the door?

When she and “An Inconvenient Truth” producer Laurie David (wife of Larry of “Seinfeld” fame) accosted Karl Rove at the White House Correspondents’ Dinner this weekend, do you think Sheryl asked Karl about his squares per sitting? Is that what put him over the edge?

Not to be left behind, green-wise Beacon Hill spent yesterday in heavy-hitter hearings on global warming and climate change. “No, that did not come up ” said Senate Chairman Marc Pacheco of Sheryl’s squares-per-sitting demands. I was mortified to ask, actually.

Indeed, my own informal toilet-paper interviews yetserday yielded little but scorn for Crow, even from very green types. “One square per derriere?” asked Robin Lebeaux. “One square per bun?” That’s crazy, even for the tiniest bun.

D.M. of the North Shore, who begged for anonymity, said even her “fabulous” TOTO Washlet toilet - a bidet with a hair-dryerlike device inside - does not bring her down to one square.

Judy C. wondered, “So Sheryl, how many times do I have to use the same piece of Kleenex?”

And lawyer Steven Townsend warned, ominously, “If toilet paper is outlawed, only outlaws will have toilet paper.”
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Yeah that tp thing is extreme. After all we must all worry about the environment down there too :D I think even Al Gore would agree with that. No excessive tp use is necessary but let's get real.
 
A_Wanderer said:
No it isn't, by using paper products were ordering more trees; wipe until your clean; please.
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And "ordering" more trees is a good thing? Even though you replace them with trees that can't produce for another 10 years or so?
 
Yes it is, it keeps people employed and allows the protection of natural habitat. The cunning strategy of using plantations is a sustainable industry and should be supported. This is a step apart from illegal logging to get timber which is happening in places where it causes real damage and only gets worse when sustainable logging practices get shut down with blanket bans.
 
A_Wanderer said:
Yes it is, it keeps people employed and allows the protection of natural habitat. The cunning strategy of using plantations is a sustainable industry and should be supported. This is a step apart from illegal logging to get timber which is happening in places where it causes real damage and only gets worse when sustainable logging practices get shut down with blanket bans.
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But at what point do we use up resources quicker than we can replinish?
 
A lot of people around the world manage just fine without TP. :shrug: It's called water and your left hand. Or even better, one of those snazzy Japanese toilets that does all the work for you. :D
 
I suspect that one square of TP is going to be majorly supersized. :D
 
Industry caught in carbon ‘smokescreen’
By Fiona Harvey and Stephen Fidler in London

Published: April 25 2007 22:07 | Last updated: April 25 2007 22:07

Companies and individuals rushing to go green have been spending millions on “carbon credit” projects that yield few if any environmental benefits.

A Financial Times investigation has uncovered widespread failings in the new markets for greenhouse gases, suggesting some organisations are paying for emissions reductions that do not take place.

The FT investigation found:

■ Widespread instances of people and organisations buying worthless credits that do not yield any reductions in carbon emissions.

■ Industrial companies profiting from doing very little – or from gaining carbon credits on the basis of efficiency gains from which they have already benefited substantially.

■ Brokers providing services of questionable or no value.

■ A shortage of verification, making it difficult for buyers to assess the true value of carbon credits.

■ Companies and individuals being charged over the odds for the private purchase of European Union carbon permits that have plummeted in value because they do not result in emissions cuts.

Francis Sullivan, environment adviser at HSBC, the UK’s biggest bank that went carbon-neutral in 2005, said he found “serious credibility concerns” in the offsetting market after evaluating it for several months.
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No surprise really.
Like fluorescent light bulbs, one square of toilet paper, "green Oscars" or "Live Earth" concerts...real results aren't what matter.
No, what's important is that these things make us "feel good" and provide an avenue for remission of past "sins."
 
INDY500 said:

Like fluorescent light bulbs, one square of toilet paper, "green Oscars" or "Live Earth" concerts...real results aren't what matter.
No, what's important is that these things make us "feel good" and provide an avenue for remission of past "sins."
Click to expand...

I beg to differ. One square of TP isn't going to make anyone feel good.

And I don't care if they wash their asses elsewhere in the world...you'll have to pry the toilet paper out of my dead, cold hands. :mad:
 
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