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Old 03-24-2006, 06:53 PM   #16
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Old 03-24-2006, 06:55 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by DrTeeth


Which beliefs would that be?
That is a good question. My guess is if you search speeches given by self-proclaimed athiests you will find, not a discussion of their beliefs, but the problem they have with other people's beliefs.
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Old 03-24-2006, 06:57 PM   #18
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Originally posted by indra
In the US what Christian holiday has been shut down for fear of offending others? Or for any reason?
Hell, haven't we been through the discussion of incidents where even secular celebrations of religious holidays have to be stopped because of the almighty fear of possibly offending someone?

We had hearty threads on the subject not three months ago.
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Old 03-24-2006, 10:35 PM   #19
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Originally posted by DrTeeth
Which beliefs would that be?
Without a clear set of beliefs to articulate and teach, perhaps "their only function is to antagonize another group"???!!
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Old 03-24-2006, 11:03 PM   #20
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The absence of belief in a higher power or religious scripture does not infer an absence of principle or ethics. One can comprise a logically consistent approach to these things without looking back to scripture. The assumption that underpins this is a demonstration of the fundamentally irreconcilable nature of religious belief to competing ideas.

The problem of taking belief and treating it as a special thing is that it elevates what you think feel more important. In truth human minds are more or less identical and we can form thoughts and routines without belief and still lead normal (and even rich and fufiling) lives.

To grant respect to belief without cause is a poor way to operate, and that covers any demands to respect the Mediterranean death cults. Under no obligation to respect that, in fact when I am told that it should be respected it makes mockery and deprecation more important.

Muslims go insane because they don't like seeing their prophet mocked - and all these Christian and Jewish groups rush to defend the Muslims "right" to not be offended. They preach harmony among faiths, about mutual respect but at the end of the day they are all in it to defend the identical belief in an imaginary friend and will cooperate against those who don't.

Scratch the surface of atheists obsessed with Christianity and you will often find an ex-Christian - or somebody who is illustrating where the religious are infringing upon the principles of secularism and religious freedoms (things that protect the atheists most of all - even under Islamic rule the people of the book can live under Dhimmi laws, but atheists get real dead real quick).

As far as me, Christianity is a lame duck religion, for the most part it has been neutralised from what it once was - I think that some issues such as the push for creationism and infringments on seperation of church and state deserve attention - but the nature of Islamic fundamentalism is several magnitudes worse for humanism and is more than petty - but I can still be consistent in not respecting beliefs: I will not say that belief in Allah is stupid but turn around and say that the Jewish belief in God is any more sensical.
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Old 03-24-2006, 11:41 PM   #21
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Old 03-24-2006, 11:46 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Most communists are atheists but not all atheists are communists.
what the hell was the point of that? are you having randian delusions of grandeur again?
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Old 03-24-2006, 11:51 PM   #23
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what the hell was the point of that? are you having randian delusions of grandeur again?
That was more of an allusion to the mentality fostered during the cold war that has definitely made faith and freedom synonymous in the US (one nation under God etc.).

It was also a reference to the current issues with Islam and it's association with terrorism. If one were to tar an atheist organisation as a bunch of communists (provided that they were not all communists) would it not the same as calling an Islamic group a bunch of terrorists (provided that they were in fact not terrorists).

But since it seems to have struck such a nerve please take it in the most antagonistic possible way.
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Old 03-24-2006, 11:53 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
That was more of an allusion to the mentality fostered during the cold war that has definitely made faith and freedom synonymous in the US (one nation under God etc.).
BRILLIANT. the student has become the master, indeed!#!!!!!
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Old 03-25-2006, 08:35 AM   #25
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I don't distrust athiests at all, I distrust individuals-individuals who think they know it all, individuals with raving egos who are not nice people, individuals who lie and scheme, who are cruel to others-that sort of thing. Those individuals can be religious, they can be non-religious..bad people come in all shapes and forms. I don't give a rat's behind what beliefs people have as long as they are the kind of human beings that I admire. If they respect my beliefs, that is a definite bonus. I don't force my beliefs on anyone so that's all I ask in return. And to make blanket judgments that all "religious" people view things in a particular way is really fundamentally unfair.
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Old 03-25-2006, 08:47 AM   #26
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I think its funny! To not trust someone who is quizzical, who wants proof, who doesn't believe in blind faith, who a realists, and THEY are not to be mistrusted?

Its quite the oppisite here in Australia I think. to admit you are actually religious is met with stares and 'are you serious?' type questions. In fact out of all my close friends not one is religious.

Interesting!
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Old 03-25-2006, 10:46 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Without a clear set of beliefs to articulate and teach, perhaps "their only function is to antagonize another group"???!!


you should probably learn more about atheism so you don't lapse into the very stereotypes that the article suggests the religious have about atheists (and i'm going to ignore the ultra-silly "ex-gay" parallel you're trying to create) -- most are absolutely rigorous in their thought as A_W has elucidated quite well.

i am not an atheist. but i absolutely respect the thought processes that have help them construct a logically sound worldview, much as i respect the thought processes that have led religous but very thoughtful people such as yourself and Yolland to construct your own worldvies.

a pity that we all can't extend the same respect not to the belief itself, because no believe in and of itself deserves automatic respect, but to at least the thought process that has constructed said belief.

it's too bad that you find those who disagree with you to be antagonistic.

it's a two-way street.
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Old 03-25-2006, 11:15 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by dazzlingamy
I think its funny! To not trust someone who is quizzical, who wants proof, who doesn't believe in blind faith, who a realists, and THEY are not to be mistrusted?

Its quite the oppisite here in Australia I think. to admit you are actually religious is met with stares and 'are you serious?' type questions. In fact out of all my close friends not one is religious.

Interesting!
Haha that is kinda my situation here, im a religious Catholic i guess, i go to Mass etc etc.....Out of all my friends at least here in Bristol i am the only one with any kind of religious belief....though some of them do believe in God i wouldn't say they were religious...So I am the odd one out, but it does lead to good discussions at times.

Back home i would say roughly 60% of the people i know are religious as such, but i would say that is more so just following what their parents do as many don't really seem to know much about what they are meant to believe in, going to mass is more like just something that is part of their schedule or whatever...but out of my main friends which i would have 3 very good friends, 2 of them are atheists and the other is a strong Catholic....so i don't exactly fear atheists in fact it is nice to have them around for the debates we have, most atheists i know are great debaters...i always like a good argument
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Old 03-25-2006, 03:25 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
you should probably learn more about atheism so you don't lapse into the very stereotypes that the article suggests the religious have about atheists (and i'm going to ignore the ultra-silly "ex-gay" parallel you're trying to create) -- most are absolutely rigorous in their thought as A_W has elucidated quite well.

i am not an atheist. but i absolutely respect the thought processes that have help them construct a logically sound worldview, much as i respect the thought processes that have led religous but very thoughtful people such as yourself and Yolland to construct your own worldvies.

a pity that we all can't extend the same respect not to the belief itself, because no believe in and of itself deserves automatic respect, but to at least the thought process that has constructed said belief.

it's too bad that you find those who disagree with you to be antagonistic.

it's a two-way street.
I understand atheism very well, thank you. I think I've shown nothing but respect for A_Wanderer, but I'd appreciate you showing where I haven't.

My point addressed organized atheism, and the message usually presented by such groups. In this thread we discussed an article on how atheists speak of the ills of other religions (emphasis with Christianity) than speak of their own views. You really have to deal with the antagonistic viewpoint instead of the usual "it applies in my case, but not yours".

To go on and try to describe my level of respect for others just to avoid my underlying question is inappropriate and not based in any knowledge of who I am and how I behave.
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Old 03-25-2006, 05:44 PM   #30
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Atheists are an actual minority. Probably less than 5% of the population.

Christians of all varieties, however, make up more like 70% of the population.

So, why do Christians complain so much about so-called religious discrimination?

I've never met an atheist who actively proselytizes or tries to push his/her views on others, while evangelism is a requirement of faith for many Christians.

George HW Bush actually said in the 1980s that aheists should not be considered citizens, and the US Supreme Court recently guaranteed the right of a group to use psychelic drugs in religious ceremony.

So, yes, I think the idea about atheists being a victim of hostile suspicion and exclusion is accurate about the mood of many Americans.

Anu
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