American tariffs

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zoomerang II

War Child
Joined
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Messages
657
Location
melbourne, terra australis
America is sometimes so damn hypocritical. Around the world it goes gallivanting and espousing the notions of free trade, complaining when Europe gives preferences to local banana growers in the Caribbean instead of big American corporations, and now they are going to go and provide massive protection to American steel.

Why should modern efficient nations like Australian steel have to suffer at the hands of American protection tariffs, and lose our contracts because the American government PAYS its steel industry to be MORE inefficient.

And this is what we get. We dropped our tariffs in almost all home strength industries at the insistence of the US under the guise of the GATT and other bilateral agreements. Australian advertisements are now American. American companies will soon be able to own much more of our media. A lot of our primary manufacturers are foreign owned. All of our traditional food products are American owned. We eat north American pork and south American oranges.

I?m definitely not saying this is all bad - I think Australian industries are now the envy of the world in efficiency and competitiveness because of this. The Chinese premier came out and said that wheat was not a long-term sustainable product for China because Australia was far more efficient than it could ever be! I am in favour of free and open trade.

Yet it is time to recognise the hypocrisy shown by Europe and America to smaller nations. So Australia has one product that it can sell to America. Yes, its steel. And after we open nearly every industry to the world, what do we get from the chief proponents to do this? Closed doors. Thanks America, again we will probably support you at every turn, allow you to sell anything you like in our country, go off and fight your wars, and then as usual we?ll probably be shafted.

It?s not only us. Small poor African countries want to sell nuts and other products. But they?re not allowed. And then we have the gall to tell them to get their house in order.

Common George Bush. Show us what the level playing field is all about.
 
Originally posted by zoomerang II:
I?m definitely not saying this is all bad - I think Australian industries are now the envy of the world in efficiency and competitiveness because of this. The Chinese premier came out and said that wheat was not a long-term sustainable product for China because Australia was far more efficient than it could ever be! I am in favour of free and open trade.


Hahaha.. It's always nice when people come out and pat their own back, as if there is no one else to do so.. It harkens back to the days you see in the old 1970's Movies, where the guy in the small Adidas 3 striped Shorts, A Big Afro held in by a Head Band, is driving to school with a Nice shapely Blow Up Girl in the Front Seat.

Again.. This is a Joke.. In no way is it intended to be taken seriously, It seems that People have already again tried to shove their poles up my ass about a joke.. *SigH*... Lighten Up Kids... I was just commenting on a funny and self-serving Justification... as if she didn't think she'd get any support from anyone else.

Anyways, no decision on this issue has been made yet, Let us sit back and Watch what happens.

L.Unplugged

And Melon.. it's nice to see you initially dropped in on this thread to throw a Kidney punch at me. Good to Hear from You..
[This message has been edited by Lemonite (edited 03-01-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Lemonite (edited 03-01-2002).]
 
And we'd all love to see another BHP closure wouldn't we?
Perhaps the ACTU and BHP will go on another propaganda campaign about how the closure will be 'for the greater good'. I wonder indeed Lemonite.

Do you think they will be as gullible this time round?

Apologies, yes this is smeared in sacrasm. Its just that the total potential losses fom it are quite sickening.
 
I agree with you completely Zoomerang.

As someone who lives in the Caribbean and seeing how the U.S screwed us in regards to Europe giving us preferential treatment with the local banana industry.

There is no way that us small islands can compete with the large South American growers. Economies of scale etc.

They tell us it would be good for us. Truth is it has not been and won't be.

Then now we have this hypocrisy.

Simply put. The U.S doesn't really care about the global population. They do what's in their best interest. If globalization turns around and bites America in the arse while other nation flourish, who would bet that America wouldn't pull out and start preaching the evils of globalization.

There is nothing wrong with the U.S looking out for itself surely you say. But why can't we? The caribbean is responsible for an insignificant % of the Banana industry. Preferential treatment to the Caribbean won't won't affect anybody and some Caribbean islands economies are dependent on bananas.

My. $0.02.
 
Originally posted by Lemonite:

Hahaha.. It's always nice when people come out and pat their own back, as if there is no one else to do so.. It harkens back to the days you see in the old 1970's Movies, where the guy in the small Adidas 3 striped Shorts, A Big Afro held in by a Head Band, is driving to school with a Nice shapely Blow Up Girl in the Front Seat.

Why oh why did i post here?
frown.gif
...i should have known FYM would give me cheap insults within 1 post...

I accept that no decision has been made as well, but from what i've heard its on its way...

Anyway, i am mainly interesteed in other peoples perspectives on global trade. For me personally i have done well out of it - having had the opportunity to live and work in other countries. Should we be breaking down barriers or protecting our traditional industries? Or both?

I figured if i labelled this topic American tariffs and gave an example it would get a response, if I'd labelled it global trade no one would have replied... funny how America can be an emotive issue.
 
I think global trade is a good thing. I'm afraid I don't know a whole lot about this issue at hand regarding steel and Australia, but something tells me that the problem here is the power of unions. If I'm not mistaken the steel manufacturing unions here in the U.S. have plenty of clout and they're not about to see tariffs lowered so they'd have to compete. Is that fair? Nope. I don't think so. So those are my $.02 for whatever it's worth.
 
Originally posted by zoomerang II:
Why oh why did i post here?
frown.gif
...i should have known FYM would give me cheap insults within 1 post...

Ignore him. He's gonna get himself banned someday if he doesn't watch out.
icon29.gif


It is an interesting topic, but I need to start picking my battles. This isn't one of them for me.

Melon

------------------
"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
 
Originally posted by sulawesigirl4:
I think global trade is a good thing. I'm afraid I don't know a whole lot about this issue at hand regarding steel and Australia, but something tells me that the problem here is the power of unions. If I'm not mistaken the steel manufacturing unions here in the U.S. have plenty of clout and they're not about to see tariffs lowered so they'd have to compete. Is that fair? Nope. I don't think so. So those are my $.02 for whatever it's worth.

Dammit...why do I always have an opinion?
tongue.gif


You have to understand it from the steelworkers' unions end. It is being destroyed, honestly, due to an influx of cheap steel from South America. A lot of very good paying jobs will be eliminated if we allow this to continue.

This is why I'm opposed to free trade in general. It is only a boon to big business, not the consumer. The prices are still just as high as ever for us consumers, but, for U.S. businesses, they can buy raw materials for cheaper prices or contract out the production to a third-world country. Nike shoes were being made at about a cost of a dollar or two and being sold for $120.

Countries should support their own domestic production first and, if extra is needed, buy abroad. Not every nation has resources, granted, so they should import once their domestic production is exhausted.

Melon

------------------
"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

[This message has been edited by melon (edited 03-01-2002).]
 
Interesting melon. I have to disagree though. The steel industry may provide many well paid jobs, but should it? If all of a sudden Europe or the rest of the world said, hold on, we are gonna make our own aeroplanes and put a huge tariff on the importation of boeings, you'd find tens of thousands of workers out of a job in Seatle. Like in many other industries. Competition does lead to improved working standards and is ultimately cheaper for consumers. There are ways to protect "jolts", such as phased reductions in tarrifs, but not increases for protection of an well established industry! The airline industry is a case in point, but the key to this is regulation. Competition generally only fails when regulation is weak, or the market dictates there is too much competition. Anyway, after the industrial revolution a lot of people worked in coal mines and assembling machines and in steel mills. Isn't the world a better place when we have automated menial tasks, moved to a freer, safer service based economy and used innovation to come up with newer jobs?

Unlike a country such as Japan, ultimately America is almost a selfsustainable nation (except when it comes to oil I suppose). I used to read a lot of David Suzuki's arguements, such as the one that said if all of a sudden the world dissapeared and japan was left, what would happen? Of course mass starvation and panic, because japan can not adequately sustain herself or her people. But now i think that is a meaningless arguement. We are all on this planet together, we all should have a right to basic human rights and given the opportunity to travel or sell our wares around the world.

Europe and America could soon be escalating the trade war, which is something we all really don't want, but sorry i am rambling.

[This message has been edited by zoomerang II (edited 03-01-2002).]
 
Actually I read, I think, Unions on the West Coast are with Australia. They say it's better, cheaper, faster coming from Australia to the West Coast, then from within the US to the West Coast. East Coast unions are telling them & Australia to shove it.

Nothing to do with this, but fuck George Bush is a dickhead. And I can't stand the way our PM does whatever Bushy wants. We have a signed agreement with the US now over the environment?
 
Originally posted by zoomerang II:

Why oh why did i post here?
frown.gif
...i should have known FYM would give me cheap insults within 1 post...

Don't let the immaturity of others discourage you from posting. You get cheap insults in FYM because they're jealous that you are well informed and make an effort to educate yourself on important issues. It's all very immature and embarrassing at the same time.

Now with regards to your topic, I completely agree with you. Although you have stated your case very well, I would like to make an additional point. Our elected officials in the U.S. government have been too heavily influenced by contributions, or "soft money", from large corporations. As a result, the U.S. has abandoned it's constitutional policies regarding a free market and free enterprise in favor of "big business" agendas.

These trade barriers have provided these corporations with the opportunity to produce and export mediocre products and services. We all know damn well that if these barriers were abolished, these corporations would be forced to compete on an equal playing field with the rest of the globe.

This is why it is so hypocritical. The foundation of capitalism is to ensure that quality products are continually produced and improved upon due to intense competition. Instead, many large corporations in the U.S. want to monopolies entire markets, ensuring effortless profits.

Hopefully, the campaign contribution reform bill will be passed soon. At which point, we will hopefully return to a purer form of free enterprise and free trade.



[This message has been edited by S|aney (edited 03-01-2002).]
 
Originally posted by melon:
Dammit...why do I always have an opinion?
tongue.gif


You have to understand it from the steelworkers' unions end. It is being destroyed, honestly, due to an influx of cheap steel from South America. A lot of very good paying jobs will be eliminated if we allow this to continue.

ah melon, I knew you wouldn't be able to resist.
wink.gif
And of course I understand your point. Competition sucks when you've been insulated by unions. But protectionism and isolationism don't seem to be very good economic policies, imo. If someone else can do it more efficiently, then why shouldn't they? (p.s. Maybe we shouldn't get into the discussion...I have a feeling that my economic paradigms are somewhat diametric to yours.
biggrin.gif
)
 
you know zoom when I read stuff liek this it reminds me of the crap the japanese would pull on american imports...I think it sucks that sometimes rich nations deny market access to smaller countries.
 
Free Trade is the way to go. This is the 21st century people! The vast majority of Economist support free trade. Protectionism is dangerous as one can see from the Great Depression. What was only going to be a recession turned into a depression when the trade tarrifs started to rise all over the world. Competion is good for everyone and I'd like to see South American Steel start to make some good money because it could create a boost for economies down there that are stuck between the First World and the Third World. It one way of building a semi self sustaining modern economy, just like we did with Europe and Japan after World War II and South Korea after the Korean war. The value of US exports to are friends and Allies was 1.2 Trillion dollars in 2001. Thats larger than the economic output of most countries except those in the top 10.
Certainly distortions and pittfalls happen in the short run with free trade. But in the long run, all the economic evidence points to the fact that free trade among developed countries is better for everyone. Underdevloped countries need to be treated with more care though. Eventually though, they are able to stand with the rest just like the "Asian Tigers" of South Korea, Taiwan, Sinapore and Malaysia have done.
 
My qualms with Free Trade is history. Look at the late 19th century. Monopolies, labor exploitation, etc. Basically, business will always do the bare minimum, unless government intercedes. I would be for free trade if everyone was at the same level playing field. As it stands, it is just going to plunge the American working class even lower. Unions, whether you like them or not, are the only source of good paying jobs for those who don't have college degrees. And don't say to these people: "Get an education." In case you haven't noticed, it is very expensive, and not everyone is cut out for college.

Plus, I don't like this trend of foreign dependence. So we do free trade, and we put all domestic producers out of business, because we can't compete with near slave labor in third-world countries. Then we rely wholly on foreign imports. Then, suddenly, the political climate changes, and everyone decides to embargo us. Then what do we do? Or, suddenly, these other countries decide to rapidly hike the price of their product. Then what do we do?

There has to be some limit or regulation, otherwise it is us Americans who will lose in the long run.

Melon

------------------
"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
 
Originally posted by melon:

Plus, I don't like this trend of foreign dependence. So we do free trade, and we put all domestic producers out of business, because we can't compete with near slave labor in third-world countries. Then we rely wholly on foreign imports. Then, suddenly, the political climate changes, and everyone decides to embargo us. Then what do we do? Or, suddenly, these other countries decide to rapidly hike the price of their product. Then what do we do?


Good point!

*runs back to the drawing board*
 
According to a report I heard on NPR, it's only the large old steel mills that are going bust.

New mills, which include recycling technologies are going just fine. (side-note - most of the 300,000+ tonnes of steel from the WTC site are being EXPORTED to other countries for recycling, and will probably then come back to US again. Why not just recycle it here??? Because old school steel mills haven't converted to recycling technology)

The implication being that the US doesn't have to resort to relying solely on imports, rather, they need to learn to do it smarter.

Also, to clarify the tariff thing, I believe the proposal is to raise steel import tariffs to 40%. This would possibly save some steel workers' jobs, but lead to a loss of jobs further down the production line, as workers at places which use steel in construction (cars), lose their jobs, due to loss of profitability resulting from higher steel prices. (Did I explain that properly?)
 
Here is the deal though, the world needs the USA more than the USA needs the world. The trade deficit is about 300 billion dollars. Countries would never want to be to protectionist for fear of losing access to the largest market in the world, 10.2 Trillion GDP as of January 2002!
The world is already interdependent among industrialized countries, mainly Europe and North America. The rebuilding of Europe, destroyed during World War II, did not drag the USA down, but made the USA stronger than ever. The same with Japan. Japan and Germany buy almost 15% of our exports(1 Trillion) The creation of new markets creates area's for new USA exports. EXPORTS CREATE JOBS! Certainly, every business strives to be a monopoly, to win it all. But Capitalism is about competion and monopolies certainly are not. The WTO exist to help regulate global trade and make it work for everyone. As well as other agreements. It is illogical to think every country in the world would decide to embargo the country that has the largest buying power in the world. The world loves US consumers because they have the money to spend and they do like crazy!
As far as standard of living the USA is #6 in the world and the difference between #1 and #6 is small. 75% of all US citizens do not have a 4 year college degree. Yet the average hourly wage in the country is 14 dollars. While no one is really hiring new workers at the moment, the unemployment rate is only 5.6%. Still below what economist consider to be the natural rate of unemployment at 6%.
Anyone can be laid off from their job at anytime. The key is being ready for the unexpected and having a back up plan. It also helps not to take on responsibilities that would wipe out or task one's resources in tough times.
The world grows more interdependent every day. The borders between countries continue to disappear every day. Corporations are spread out in dozons of countries just as they are spread through the States of the USA. My sister currently works for a British Accounting Firm in Dublin Ireland!
Europe understands the importance of Free Trade which is why the European Union was formed and 12 countries now use the Euro. This is going to help these countries, not hurt them. The cost of doing business decreases. I just hope North America and South America can set up a similar situation one day, because in a few years, Europe is going to be a Tiger.
Besides, do your really want to see U2 pay a tarrif for playing shows in the USA just because they are from Ireland!? I'm American, but I would much rather see U2 than Dave Matthews, and it would be stupid if I had to pay a tarrif to see my favorite band just because they are not from my country! Whats wrong Dave, can't you take the competion? Not to be taken to seriously of course but you get the idea.
 
Rufus,
Good point about the higher price of steel and the resulting decrease in profits causing greater job loss, than leaving things where they are.
 
Originally posted by S|aney:

Hopefully, the campaign contribution reform bill will be passed soon. At which point, we will hopefully return to a purer form of free enterprise and free trade.


I'd like to see you assert your claim to this statement in the Campaign Finance Reform Thread about halfway down the Thread Page.. I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how the current bill will make anything "Purer".. And especially how this has any relation to Free Trade and Enterprise... I'm at a loss here.. Enlighten Me Kind Sir.

L.Unplugged
 
I agree with the original post, that this is hypocritical of the U.S. government, but not very surprising. Countries just love to play games with subsidies, tariffs, and other trade-distorting mechanisms. Bush was here in our city yesterday, and the steel workers were out picketing for increased tariffs.
I'm all for free (or at least freer) trade. I work in the agriculture sector, an industry dominated by subsidies and tariffs. I just read a very interesting article today on New Zealand's lack of agricultural subsides. People talk about industries being destroyed when they lose their protections...the current steel debate is a great example. In New Zealand, ag subsidies were eliminated in 1984, over night. No phase out. The industry responded, became more efficient, and is still going strong 17 years later. Take a look: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26511-2002Mar1.html
 
Hello,

Nice article sulawesigirl. I want to focus on one small quote from that article:

from the New York Times:

Playing Politics With Trade

Any such tariffs, essentially a new tax on a broad array of manufactured goods, will hurt the American economy as it struggles to rebound. The move would cost far more jobs at companies that consume steel, such as auto parts makers, than those it might save at inefficient steel companies. Moreover, such brazen protectionism could plunge the world into a bruising trade war capable of derailing the administration's ostensible goal of lifting living standards at home and abroad by breaking down barriers through a series of new trade agreements.

I already read yesterday that the EU is going to complain to the WTO (World Trade Organisation) for this 'illegal' use of tariffs. If their complaint gets acknowledged (which I think is very likely) then the EU is allowed to set tariffs themselves against US products with the same monetary consequence. I only think the EU will especially choose those products that have a bigger impact on the US economy. Examples may include US cars, aviation, peanuts or corn (I don't know which sectors the EU will target exactly, I'm only giving examples here).
The result will be that the US economy will be hurt more by the decreasing foreign demand for those products than the gain for the steel mills. And some industries may get a double hit. So can the auto industry suffer from higher local steel prices and for a much lower foreign demand. And the EU is only one party (although it is probably the biggest party the US has to deal with), other countries who are member of the WTO can file similar complaints that, when acknowledged, allow them to target specific US products with tariffs.

I fear this trade war will result in some kind of economic vicious circle...

Marty




------------------
People criticize me but I know it's not the end
I try to kick the truth, not just to make friends

Spearhead - People In Tha Middle
 
It looks like Bush is actually going to go ahead and do it...raise steel tariffs up to 30%. I think this is an awful move and is only going to hurt our economy not to mention foreign relations.

from the New York Times:

Playing Politics With Trade

Many corporate chieftains around the country must be scratching their heads in amazement, wondering why they worked so hard to elect a market-loving, free-trading Republican administration. Democrats are supposed to be the ones who pander to labor unions. Yet it is President Bush who is considering the ill-advised move of slapping tariffs on steel imports, one that his Democratic predecessor responsibly resisted.

Any such tariffs, essentially a new tax on a broad array of manufactured goods, will hurt the American economy as it struggles to rebound. The move would cost far more jobs at companies that consume steel, such as auto parts makers, than those it might save at inefficient steel companies. Moreover, such brazen protectionism could plunge the world into a bruising trade war capable of derailing the administration's ostensible goal of lifting living standards at home and abroad by breaking down barriers through a series of new trade agreements.

America's International Trade Commission has ruled, at the administration's behest, that imports have financially hurt the nation's steel producers. It set tomorrow as a deadline for the president to decide on what steps, if any, he will take to protect the industry. On the merits, rejecting the protectionist impulse would seem easy, as the president's top economic advisers have reportedly argued.

They will probably be overruled, however, by politics. Some scoffed at the Bush campaign's efforts to woo steelworkers during the 2000 campaign, but Mr. Bush ultimately carried traditionally Democratic West Virginia. Without that upset Mr. Bush would still be in Austin, such was his razor-thin margin of victory. He would like to add the rich electoral prize of Pennsylvania to his win column in 2004, and help Republican Congressional candidates from steel-producing states this November.

Yet in trying to balance the nation's economic and foreign policy concerns against his political interests, Mr. Bush might still damage the former without advancing the latter. He is reportedly going to reject Big Steel's call for a 40 percent across-the- board tariff, settling for a mix of quotas and lower tariffs that vary according to the steel product. Some poorer nations, along with Mexico and Canada, might be exempted.

That may seem like a reasonable compromise to those involved in drafting it, but it is unlikely to satisfy Big Steel. In addition to the 40 percent tariff, the industry wants a $12 billion taxpayer bailout of its troubled companies' lavish retiree pension and health care benefits. The industry says this would free steelmakers to consolidate and become more efficient. Even an administration eager to cater to West Virginia cannot support such a fanciful end run around the nation's bankruptcy laws. The president's rejection of this plea, combined with his embrace of more modest tariffs, is likely to strike those wooed steelworkers as a betrayal.

In truth, steel imports have been drastically declining since the glut caused by the Asian financial crisis. International negotiations are making progress at cutting excess capacity worldwide, and American steel production capacity remains strong. Many steel companies have gone bankrupt in recent years, admittedly, but they are as much the victims of newer, more efficient domestic competitors as of foreign competitors.

A senseless rush to impose tariffs will reinforce suspicions around the world that the United States does not believe its own preaching about the paramount importance of embracing free trade, regardless of whatever transitional pain it inflicts on some economic sectors. European and Asian nations will surely retaliate.
 
These are all a result of an election year.. Sadly..

Anyways, It's important just to know that not all Foreign steel is going to be slapped with a Tariff of 8%-30% initially.. It is not until a certain amount has been shipped.. Which means that relatively little Steel will actually be tariffed in the end.. I'm not saying I'm all for this, but just letting you know the details of it all..

Here's How the Tariff's will be applied...

From the Chicago Tribune:
How the tariffs apply

The 30 percent tariff increase applies to flat steel products such as cold- and hot-rolled steel, plate-rolled and coated sheet steel, and hot and cold "bar" steel products. Slab steel also qualifies for a 30 percent tariff increase, but only after countries have shipped a total of 5.4 million tons.

A 15 percent tariff increase applies to stainless steel bar, stainless rod and circular welded tubular products, as well as "rebar" used in construction. The 8 percent tariff applies to stainless steel wire.

Bush struck a middle course in the tariff relief recommended by the six-member International Trade Commission, which ruled last year that the U.S. steel industry had been harmed by the surge of imports. The president acted under federal trade laws that allow the U.S. to take "safeguard" measures to help industries damaged by imports.

Zoellick went to great lengths to assure Americans that Bush was not departing from free-trade principles, saying that traditional manufacturers such as steel cannot quickly adapt in a swiftly moving global economy. The U.S. steel industry needs "breathing room" to adapt, Zoellick said, while noting that the global steel industry "is rife with government intervention, subsidies and protection."


Copyright ? 2002, Chicago Tribune
 
That socialist president bush you have - protecting the unions, interfering with business and old industry instead of allowing competition and modernisation - i don't know how you Americans can cope with him.

Perhaps its time to bring back a right wing conservative like clinton
eek.gif
 
All the reason more why I dislike the idea of "free trade," especially that ridiculous WTO. If the world was on the same economic level, then I could see it. But when we have to compete with nations with poor regulation and standards of living, whereas they can sell their products far underpriced, it hurts Americans in the long run. If we had just left things the way they were, our entire steel industry would have went bankrupt. Period. And it is my opinion that a nation's strength is dependent on it's industrial capacity, not on our population of paper-pushers.

Regardless, I think that if we wish to continue free trade, the WTO member nations will have to start setting standards, such as a global minimum wage, global production/environmental regulations, global labor protections, etc. As it stands, America has to compete with near slave labor in too many cases, and it is all perfectly legal. I find that appalling.

Melon

------------------
"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
 
While I understand the basis of your sentiments Melon, a lot of the overseas corporations and NGOs operating in foreign countries give those countries huge benfits:
- foreign income raising the local standard of living.
- employment, often well paid by local standards.
Are you saying that these people should not have the right to work and raise their own standard of living? I would assume not but international trade has generally lead to a raising of global wealth.

I agree that safety and environmental standards should be uniform - but I would not necessarily say that American standards are necessarily the highest around the world.
Europe takes a heavy regulatory approach whereas you guys might end up in litigation as a means for resolution. If BP Amoco and Shell were forced to meet European regulations in America you might find your gas prices over there skyrocketing.

As for a minimum standard or minimum wage, well, absolutely. So I assume there is a minimum wage in America?

I completely disagree though that it hurts america in the long run. In fact, over history the oposite has proved true. It is more likely to hurt America in the short run, but those steel industries that should survive will go on and prosper, and look at what America is good at - not making the steel, but turning it into useful everyday objects. Those objects like cars and fridges that will now cost American consumers more, probably far more than the benefit gained from tarrif imposition.

Finally, I totally disagree that a nation's strength is dependent on it's industrial capacity, not on our population of paper-pushers. In fact global economic activity is generally measured in terms of GDP, which is an often archaic approach because it does not assess the activity of all services. The world should be mature enough to place a value on the mind and creativity of it peoples, rather than purely what we manufacture or "produce".

In terms of steel, lets face it, the real problems have been the overvalued American dollar, poor management, and massively overvalued steel industry pension funds. A 30% tarrif will do nothing to solve these core issues - all of which will probably result in steel industry bankruptcies anyway - even if there was a 100% tarrif.
Instead of tarrifs Bush should have provided localised aid to those regions most affected, and help given temporary tax incentives for those areas for new economic activity to replace or modernise those outdated industries and those workers who are about to lose their pensions - Not a global trade war that will hurt us all.
 
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