American pilot drops 500 pound bomb, Kills 4 Canadians. - Page 3 - U2 Feedback

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Old 04-20-2002, 03:51 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by kobayashi:
dem's are fightin' words boy.
so now this is grounds for a war?

There's more than one way to skin a cat, but if you'd like to assume a 'war' then so be it. Your interest in the topic has been noted.

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Old 04-20-2002, 07:07 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by gabrielvox:
And let me guess, 80s, being the devout Christian you are you support this war right?

What did you do, follow me here? I note you didnt respond to this thread until I did.

You know what else Ive noticed? Since you and I squared off over religion I have recieved no less than 20 virus emails, previously I have never EVER had even one. If you pray daily you'd better pray I don't find out they originated from you. And I will find out where they came from, believe me.
I do not believe this, the only thing 80 ties would send to you is the bible

And what for use would it have to send someone virus- emails.

Read you, Rono
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Old 04-20-2002, 08:26 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by brettig:
I think what is really at fault in this latest friendly fire incident is the military mindset, which means any military in any country.
Oh really? Please inform us on what the military mindset IS and what you feel it should become.

Keep in mind, the "unofficial motto" of many in the military is "Pray for peace, Prepare for WaR".

Quote:
This isnt the 1st time a keyed up serviceman has ignored orders or got a nervy trigger finger (the 3 most famous i can think of are The Boston Massacre preceding the American Revolution, The Charge of the Light Brigade, and the 1905 massacre of Russian peasants in front of the St Petersburg Winter palace by the Tsar's troops).
Keep in mind, we don't (or at least I don't ) know all of the details yet. We don't know if something malfunctioned on the aircraft (not likely imo), or if something happened on the ground to cause him to ignore orders and fire (very likely imo), or if the transmission was miscommunicated (likely imo), or if he just freaked (highly unlikely).

Quote:
The best form of inquiry would be one that examined the chain of command, for if this pilot was ordered not to drop his bombs and still did, there must be some problem with the delivery/context/information contained in the orders he received.
Yeah this is given to happen, standard procedure in fact.

Quote:
I think the blame rests with the pilot, but if we are to prevent these kinds of misunderstandings/incidents/needless deaths, then we need to look at why he did what he did, and how that can be addressed. I dont think this is a question of involvement in afghanistan, because as ive shown, this is a wider issue that streches across many nations and many eras.

[This message has been edited by brettig (edited 04-19-2002).]
Back to what I was hinting at about "what is a military mindset", I think too many people associate this with 'TOP GUN' or other movies that glamorize war and depicts the (in this case) pilots as reckless studs who blow up hostile/enemy targets then shoot back to base for cold beers with the boys and hot drunk sex with the girls.

WRONG

The military mindset cannot be explained to anyone who has not or will not be in this situation. Or at least it cannot be fully appreciated, respectfully.

While I won't bore you with details, right now, I do want you to try and understand something. Bullets make a funny sound, almost comical. Artillery rounds are loud and scary. Anti-aircraft artillery rounds are pretty to look at, the tracer round that is (not all are tracer rounds), like fireworks.

You never hear the ones with your name on them.


[This message has been edited by z edge (edited 04-20-2002).]
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Old 04-20-2002, 11:26 PM   #34
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Communication Breakdown *riff* Communication Breakdown *riff*

The military mindset im talking about is the one that allows for rash errors and breakdowns in command structure...pray for peace but prepare for war is fine (and im NOT arguing that the military must become soft or user friendly or a sensitive new age organisation!), but I think there needs to be an examination of the chain of command in these situations, the procedures that are used, the protocols and even the language...

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Old 04-21-2002, 12:37 AM   #35
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Only 4 Canadians? What a waste of a bomb.
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Old 04-21-2002, 01:09 AM   #36
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Juan don't you realise that:

1. Only 8/10 interferencers will know youre kidding

2. Only about 1/3 of them will find the joke funny

3. 10/10 will find it TASTELESS.


[This message has been edited by brettig (edited 04-20-2002).]
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Old 04-21-2002, 01:16 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by brettig:
Juan don't you realise that:
2. Only about 1/3 of them will find the joke funny
Funny that they're dead? Or funny that they're canadian?
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Old 04-21-2002, 01:31 AM   #38
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I couldnt tell you, im not in the 1/3 who find it funny.
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Old 04-21-2002, 01:44 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by brettig:
I couldnt tell you, im not in the 1/3 who find it funny.
Well I'll live with the other 2/3 thinking I'm an asshole.
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Old 04-21-2002, 02:06 AM   #40
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Suits me.
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Old 04-21-2002, 03:39 AM   #41
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[This message has been edited by z edge (edited 04-21-2002).]
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Old 04-21-2002, 05:40 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by bonoman:
the pilot radiod base and asked to drop a bomb and they said NO. He took another trip around and seen more guns going off, not at him, and dropped a 500 pound bomb. I was allways under the impression that if you are told NO by your supervisors then you dont do it.
I agree that the pilot should face charges because of this

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Old 04-21-2002, 05:47 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by Salome:
Quote:
Originally posted by bonoman:
the pilot radiod base and asked to drop a bomb and they said NO. He took another trip around and seen more guns going off, not at him, and dropped a 500 pound bomb. I was allways under the impression that if you are told NO by your supervisors then you dont do it.
I agree that the pilot should face charges because of this

Well Salome, we seem to be coming at odds at evry thread.

On this one, lets see what the investigators have to say before we pass judgement

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Old 04-21-2002, 05:53 AM   #44
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of course if the investigators find out the situation as presented now isn't the actual reality then things will be different

but IMO a soldier who doesn't follow up on orders should face charges when innocent lifes could have been saved

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Old 04-21-2002, 07:30 AM   #45
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It is quite true that this is a terrible occurence, but lets not be too hasty in proclaiming who's incompetent and who had a raw deal; the parties are in war and in war terrible things happen, including friendly fire.

I lived in Kuwait for seven years, and it was routine to hear American aviation flying from base to base constantly, it was also strangely common to hear of American planes/helicopters crashing into each other; a plane was once shot down by an American base, and there were two incidents where a couple of helicopters crashed into each other over the Kuwaiti towers. I wonder, how much coverage did that get?

My point is, a lot of stuff happens that doesn't get coverage, and a lot of facts are hidden away from us, and we are left in a position where we don't know what on Earth happened. Is this sort of thing acceptable? Ofcouse not, and the Pentagon should profusely apologise to the Canadians, or atleast certain respective parties. Should those responsible be held accountable? Of course, should further investigation prove as much. Should the Canadians drop out? If they were to, they should do it for a better reason than a mistake. Joining a war and committing oneself to it is based more on fundamental reasons, not on the firing range and aim of your ally. I think that the Canadians, in light of this event, should stay in, however, should they find some faults or weakness in the philosophy of the war on terrorism, that is quite another matter.

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