Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
i'm still waiting for you to say anything that has something to do with the thesis of the original article, which is resoundingly true and getting worse.
so we're playing "my website is better than your website"?
so when we don't like what globalsecurity.org has to say, then we go to iscasualties.org? if i pull out Wikipedia, you respond with World Book Encyclopedia?
so, as you can see, from a detailed and extensive looking into Vietnam War Statiscis to sources more general in nautre, they list the fact that over 150,000 were wounded in Vietnam.
not terribly effective means of arguing, especially when you Kerry-bash in order to make a point, which belies the real agenda here.
your enormous leap in logic was summarized in these lines:
[q]The Vietnam figures that break down at roughly 150,000 plus for hospitalization and another 150,000 for non hospitalization are roughly the same as the return to duty in 72 hours and not return to duty in 72 hours for the Iraq figures. [/q]
this is a bad, inaccurate comparison, especially given the advancements in battlefield medicine that render the comparison inaccurate. you've yet to point out what percentage of the 9,000+ who have not returned to duty after 72 hours ever do return to duty.
and it's probably undercounted anyway. way back in 2004, we had this:
[q]How many injured and ill soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines - like Chris Schneider - are left off the Pentagon’s casualty count?
Would you believe 15,000? 60 Minutes asked the Department of Defense to grant us an interview. They declined. Instead, they sent a letter, which contains a figure not included in published casualty reports: "More than 15,000 troops with so-called 'non-battle' injuries and diseases have been evacuated from Iraq."
Many of those evacuated are brought to Landstuhl in Germany. Most cases are not life-threatening. In fact, some are not serious at all. But only 20 percent return to their units in Iraq. Among the 80 percent who don’t return are GIs who suffered crushing bone fractures; scores of spinal injuries; heart problems by the hundreds; and a slew of psychiatric cases. None of these are included in the casualty count, leaving the true human cost of the war something of a mystery.
"It's difficult to estimate what the total number is," says John Pike, director of a research group called GlobalSecurity.org.
As a military analyst, Pike has spoken out against both Republican and Democratic administrations. He’s weighed all the available casualty data and has made an informed estimate that goes well beyond what the Pentagon has released.
"You have to say that the total number of casualties due to wounds, injury, disease would have to be somewhere in the ballpark of over 20, maybe 30,000," says Pike.
His calculation, striking as it is, is based on the military's own definition of casualty – anyone "lost to the organization," in this case, for medical reasons. And Pike believes it’s no accident that the military reports a number far lower than his estimate.
"The Pentagon, I think, is afraid that they're going to lose public support for this war, the way they lost public support for Vietnam back in the 1960s," says Pike. "And minimizing the apparent cost of the war, I think, is one way that they're hoping to sustain public support here at home."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/11/19/60minutes/main656756.shtml
[/q]
so, there you have it. the 20,000+ is the most accurate number to compare to the 150,000+ from vietnam, as the 20,000+ does not count what the Pentagon terms as "non-battle" injuries, the total number of which we do not know, and that mysterious total number would be the best comparison to the 300,000+ Vietnam era soldiers who might have lost a leg or gotten a particularly nasty paper cut.
so we're playing "my website is better than your website"?
so when we don't like what globalsecurity.org has to say, then we go to iscasualties.org? if i pull out Wikipedia, you respond with World Book Encyclopedia?
so, as you can see, from a detailed and extensive looking into Vietnam War Statiscis to sources more general in nautre, they list the fact that over 150,000 were wounded in Vietnam.
not terribly effective means of arguing, especially when you Kerry-bash in order to make a point, which belies the real agenda here.
your enormous leap in logic was summarized in these lines:
[q]The Vietnam figures that break down at roughly 150,000 plus for hospitalization and another 150,000 for non hospitalization are roughly the same as the return to duty in 72 hours and not return to duty in 72 hours for the Iraq figures. [/q]
this is a bad, inaccurate comparison, especially given the advancements in battlefield medicine that render the comparison inaccurate. you've yet to point out what percentage of the 9,000+ who have not returned to duty after 72 hours ever do return to duty.
and it's probably undercounted anyway. way back in 2004, we had this:
[q]How many injured and ill soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines - like Chris Schneider - are left off the Pentagon’s casualty count?
Would you believe 15,000? 60 Minutes asked the Department of Defense to grant us an interview. They declined. Instead, they sent a letter, which contains a figure not included in published casualty reports: "More than 15,000 troops with so-called 'non-battle' injuries and diseases have been evacuated from Iraq."
Many of those evacuated are brought to Landstuhl in Germany. Most cases are not life-threatening. In fact, some are not serious at all. But only 20 percent return to their units in Iraq. Among the 80 percent who don’t return are GIs who suffered crushing bone fractures; scores of spinal injuries; heart problems by the hundreds; and a slew of psychiatric cases. None of these are included in the casualty count, leaving the true human cost of the war something of a mystery.
"It's difficult to estimate what the total number is," says John Pike, director of a research group called GlobalSecurity.org.
As a military analyst, Pike has spoken out against both Republican and Democratic administrations. He’s weighed all the available casualty data and has made an informed estimate that goes well beyond what the Pentagon has released.
"You have to say that the total number of casualties due to wounds, injury, disease would have to be somewhere in the ballpark of over 20, maybe 30,000," says Pike.
His calculation, striking as it is, is based on the military's own definition of casualty – anyone "lost to the organization," in this case, for medical reasons. And Pike believes it’s no accident that the military reports a number far lower than his estimate.
"The Pentagon, I think, is afraid that they're going to lose public support for this war, the way they lost public support for Vietnam back in the 1960s," says Pike. "And minimizing the apparent cost of the war, I think, is one way that they're hoping to sustain public support here at home."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/11/19/60minutes/main656756.shtml
[/q]
so, there you have it. the 20,000+ is the most accurate number to compare to the 150,000+ from vietnam, as the 20,000+ does not count what the Pentagon terms as "non-battle" injuries, the total number of which we do not know, and that mysterious total number would be the best comparison to the 300,000+ Vietnam era soldiers who might have lost a leg or gotten a particularly nasty paper cut.
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