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Old 09-28-2001, 05:42 PM   #16
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I think this article really stereotypes Americans. This is a reputation that the world holds for us, but it's not true in many many Americans' cases. many of us know a lot about what's going on in other cultures. Ah well, just anotehr stone for the article author to cast at America, I reckon.
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Old 09-28-2001, 08:42 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon:
No...the chicken-egg dilemma is simple.
The egg, obviously an analogy for an unborn chicken, always comes first. Where did this egg come from? The "proto-chicken," the evolutionary ancestor that later spawned the chicken, but was not part of the chicken species. So the "proto-chicken" gave birth to the egg that harbored the world's first chicken.

And to solve the other question, "Does a tree that falls in the woods with no one around make a sound?" Of course it does. Your presence here or there isn't going to affect the processes that makes it emit sound waves, and just because no one is there to receive these sound waves doesn't mean that they weren't emitted.

I drain all the fun out of everything at times!

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Sound isn't a wave of vibrations in air molecules; it's the sensation you experience when those vibrations interact with the timpanic membrane in your inner ear and carry impulses to your brain. If no one is within such a distance of the tree, the vibrations in the air won't reach anyone's ear. So the correct answer to "If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?" is, in fact, no.

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Old 09-28-2001, 09:56 PM   #18
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I agree with the article's view that the general public in the USA is not informed when it comes to International Relations. But then the article takes a nose dive and attempts to discredit US Foreign Policy and US Foreign Policy "Elites". This I think Is what the author is really going after. The Author suggest that US support for the regime in Saudi Arabia is why Sept 11 happened. This of course is utter BS. The Hijackers did not do this for democracy in Saudi Arabia! The USA takes a very careful approach to policy in the Middle East and the reason why we support certain regimes that are not democratic is because the alternative would be worse and would definitely not be a democracy. Those that seek to overthrough many of the moderate Arab regimes in the reason, want to, not for democracy, but for radical political reasons.
The article also talks about Afghanistan by claiming they were are puppet that we left behind. When Afghanistan was first attacked by the Soviet Union, there was no USA involvement in the conflict. That came later. The article also does not mention the fact that the Soviet Afgan War did NOT end in 1989 with the pullout of Soviet troops. As late as 1991, the Soviet Airforce was still doing airstrikes in support of the Communist Government in Afganistan. In any event, US support in the region was not as great as the article and many in the media contend. It is not the end of supply of a few types of military weapons by the USA that created the instability there in the post Soviet Era.
Oh and I don't buy into any theory of mass indoctrination of American school childern during 50s 60s and 70s. Or Reagan being the fault for US Education in the 80s. Education for childern is first and for most, the responsibility of parents. School is second.
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Old 09-28-2001, 10:19 PM   #19
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Most of the world has a stereotypical view of the united states and that is especially true in socialistic countries since their whole media does go against a lot of what the usa is. look at kyoto deal, europe wanted it, but the real reason they wanted a specific version was because it would give the EU (european union) more economic power in the world and of course usa wouldn't do that. And here i heard over and over again usa was being ignorant to the concerns of the world when it was actually protecting its own ass. usa said it would agree on a different version of a kyoto, just one that didn't give europe more power. Isn't that ignorance too of all the other countries looking at the usa with stereotypical views?

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Old 09-28-2001, 10:21 PM   #20
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there are ignorant bastards all over the world
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Old 09-29-2001, 01:10 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING:

The article also talks about Afghanistan by claiming they were are puppet that we left behind. When Afghanistan was first attacked by the Soviet Union, there was no USA involvement in the conflict. That came later. The article also does not mention the fact that the Soviet Afgan War did NOT end in 1989 with the pullout of Soviet troops. As late as 1991, the Soviet Airforce was still doing airstrikes in support of the Communist Government in Afganistan. In any event, US support in the region was not as great as the article and many in the media contend. It is not the end of supply of a few types of military weapons by the USA that created the instability there in the post Soviet Era.
I have to disagree with this statement. The U.S. WAS involved in Afghanistan BEFORE the Soviet attack, and this involvement actually contributed to the attack.


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Old 09-29-2001, 04:49 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Henry Rollins:
And here i heard over and over again usa was being ignorant to the concerns of the world when it was actually protecting its own ass.
protecting it's own ass???
wow, I didn't realise the U.S. were in such an economical dire straits that you just can't afford to protect our ecological system

I guess the Kyoto agreement would 'cost' the U.S. nore than Europe (I didn't read the whole damn thing, so I'm not certain), but that could be because - right now - the U.S is a bigger polluter than Europe (if I'm not mistaken)

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[This message has been edited by Salome (edited 09-29-2001).]
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Old 09-30-2001, 03:18 AM   #23
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I was a school child during the cold war....and I believe in the indoctrination theory. I don't remember being "taught' about anything negative concerning our US history. Anything negative I learned on my own. America first...America best. Very little about anyone else...

Its different now..my son said he believed the teachers were trying hard to undo all that...but emphasizing every bad thing America has ever done!

I am amused by Americans who come on the internet...are appalled to find someone critisizing America...they respond with a list of American's virtues and freedoms...and someone from the UK or Canada chimes in with "We got those too!!"

Its a bit of a stereotype...the Irish love to drink..the Italians are great lovers..the French make good food..Canadians are 'nice to a fault'....Americans are good people for the most part...but ignorant as hell...

Maybe we will outgrow it..

I for one love the ITN international news we get here on PBS...if I could get the BBC here I would watch it..

Another thing is...well...there is so much going on in our country in and of itself. Its a big country. Important country. Lots of stuff going on. Doesn't leave much time for international happenings in a 30 minute broadcast...(although they could leave out what Michael Jackson is doing...or what Michal Jordan decided. That's for the entertainment and sports shows as far as I'm concerned)

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Old 09-30-2001, 03:23 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by dream wanderer:
I for one love the ITN international news we get here on PBS...if I could get the BBC here I would watch it..
I watched BBC a bit when I was in the U.K. for six weeks. A far different view of America than what you'll get on the U.S. networks.

I also get CBC where I'm at, and they have excellent coverage of foreign conflicts. Canadian newscasters aren't forbidden to report from the 'war zone,' like U.S. newcasters have been since the end of Vietnam (mostly because the government didn't like all the criticism), and they did some excellent coverage on Kosovo when that was happening. It's really interesting. It's quite a shame that most Americans (considering most of you aren't in or near Canada) will never see it.

Melon

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Old 09-30-2001, 04:04 PM   #25
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I too believe the Americans are ignorant. Actually if they ever realized how cruel their goverments have been to other countries for a long time, they would freak out!

But they just don't know. They hadn't even knew where Afhganistan is, until the recent events. Maybe if I was in their position, I wouldn't know it either. I wouldn't really care. The media wouldn't bother me with images of miserable people dying of starvation and poverty.

Now they all know how bad the Taliban are. When the CIA was providing them with weapons to fight against the Russians (another invisible enemy; Communism), the Taliban were good, now they became evil.

How can you expect the Americans to be aware, anyway? Their president didn't know the name of India's prime minister when they asked him two years ago...




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[This message has been edited by Sledgehammer (edited 09-30-2001).]
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Old 09-30-2001, 06:36 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sledgehammer:
I too believe the Americans are ignorant. Actually if they ever realized how cruel their goverments have been to other countries for a long time, they would freak out!

But they just don't know. They hadn't even knew where Afhganistan is, until the recent events. Maybe if I was in their position, I wouldn't know it either. I wouldn't really care. The media wouldn't bother me with images of miserable people dying of starvation and poverty.

Now they all know how bad the Taliban are. When the CIA was providing them with weapons to fight against the Russians (another invisible enemy; Communism), the Taliban were good, now they became evil.

How can you expect the Americans to be aware, anyway? Their president didn't know the name of India's prime minister when they asked him two years ago...
Sledgehammer, I fear that you are as confused as all of us Americans are.

The Taliban came into power in Afghanistan after the Soviet conflict. Of course, since I am an ignorant American, I know this only because someone else in this forum said so.
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Old 09-30-2001, 07:25 PM   #27
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Good one speedracer. Radiodivision, do you have a number as far as financial info, list of weapon systems, agents stationed in Afghanistan, that would support the idea of large US involvement in Afghanistan prior to 1978. Sure the USA was involved in even a small way in nearly every anti-communist movement on the planet at that time. But the massive support for the Afghan rebels during the 1980s, or as you say before 1980, is overblown by the media. It was sure there, but not to the extent that the media suggest. The Afghans deserve far more credit themselves for their resistance to Soviet Ocupation.
The Soviets Invaded Afghanistan because the Communist Government there was fragile and could fall at any time. This would have been the case with or without small amounts of US aid to anti-Communist forces there.
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Old 09-30-2001, 07:40 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by speedracer:
The Taliban came into power in Afghanistan after the Soviet conflict.

True, there is no direct connection with the Taliban. I actually meant that all these religious extremists (including Bin Laden?), who were the Islamic leaders in the war against the Russians, were financed and armed by the CIA. And that's a fact, not an irony.



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Old 09-30-2001, 08:01 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon:
I also get CBC where I'm at, and they have excellent coverage of foreign conflicts. Canadian newscasters aren't forbidden to report from the 'war zone,' like U.S. newcasters have been since the end of Vietnam (mostly because the government didn't like all the criticism), and they did some excellent coverage on Kosovo when that was happening. It's really interesting. It's quite a shame that most Americans (considering most of you aren't in or near Canada) will never see it.

I'm in Canada, and I wholly agree. Another thing is, CBC's Olympic coverage kicked NBC's butt. Believe it or not, we actually saw the events live! *Gasp*

Also, now in Canada, the BBC is available if you have a digital TV box.

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Old 09-30-2001, 08:13 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sledgehammer:

True, there is no direct connection with the Taliban. I actually meant that all these religious extremists (including Bin Laden?), who were the Islamic leaders in the war against the Russians, were financed and armed by the CIA. And that's a fact, not an irony.
Ok.

Still, I don't think you're proving that the American public and politicians are dumb. What you're proving is that politics in the Middle East are far more complicated and messy than we think.
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