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Old 11-11-2001, 10:07 PM   #1
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America On It's Knees

Everyone knows that I place blame for the Sept. 11 attacks solely on the terrorists. I don't think you can really blame US policy or anything like that. I think the blame rests on those evil people who planned and/or carried out the attacks.
That being said, I can state that certainly are things that I believe the USA has done wrong, policy-wise. I am defintely not a "My country, wrong or right" sort fo guy. I believe the USA should always seek to do the morally ethical thing. Sadly, sometimes our policies don't reflect that. However, that can also certainly be said about all nations. That is why I don't understand America-haters. It's not as if the USA is alone in making wrong decisions.
So, in the aftermath of this horrible atrocities, where should the USA - and every country who lost someone in the attacks on the WTC and Pentagon- be?
As you all know, I agree with the military action against the perpetrators of these crimes. So, that is one place I think we should be. But more importantly, I think America should be, as the title of this post suggests, on it's knees. In prayer.
Since Sept. 11, we've seen a revival of sorts. Patritism is at a high level, and that's good (except in cases of those few misguided persons who claim to be acting on their feelings of patriotism when they mistreat innocent people just because they're Muslims). Also, church attendance is up. People seem to be more interested in God these days and the refrain of "God Bless America" is once again popular.
But what exactly does "God Bless America" mean? I fear that for too many people, it simply means "Please, God, protect us from the evil doers". So what happens if we suddenly were miraculously pulled from this jam we're in and all terrorist were dead and we somehow knew we'd never be in danger again? I fear that if that happened, we would go back to being the nation we largely were before - greedy, immoral, selfish people. And we would once again forget what God has done for us.
In all this recent talk of a nation "returning to God", one thing that is unfortunately missing from most people is the idea of repentance. We need to be on our knees asking God for forgiveness for those areas in which we have abandoned him - immorality, greed, selfishness, hatred, and complacency. We need to rededicate our hearts and lives to the service of God, and in so doing, we can make such a positive impact on the world. It's not enough to ask God to "bless us". In fact, I would assert that to do so without repentence is an exercise in futility. Yes, God might get us out of this jam we're in, but if we continue on the course we're in, if we don't repent and turn from our evil ways, we will eventually be given what we deserve.
Thie preceding sentiment is not just how I feel about the USA; it's how I feel about the entire world. And I call now upon all Christians who read and agree with me to be in prayer that all the peoples of the world will confess and repent, and make a commitment to be used by God for the advancement of His kingdom and gospel. Thanks for reading.
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Old 11-11-2001, 11:17 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:
Everyone knows that I place blame for the Sept. 11 attacks solely on the terrorists. I don't think you can really blame US policy or anything like that. I think the blame rests on those evil people who planned and/or carried out the attacks.
That being said, I can state that certainly are things that I believe the USA has done wrong, policy-wise. I am defintely not a "My country, wrong or right" sort fo guy. I believe the USA should always seek to do the morally ethical thing. Sadly, sometimes our policies don't reflect that. However, that can also certainly be said about all nations. That is why I don't understand America-haters. It's not as if the USA is alone in making wrong decisions.
So, in the aftermath of this horrible atrocities, where should the USA - and every country who lost someone in the attacks on the WTC and Pentagon- be?
As you all know, I agree with the military action against the perpetrators of these crimes. So, that is one place I think we should be. But more importantly, I think America should be, as the title of this post suggests, on it's knees. In prayer.
Since Sept. 11, we've seen a revival of sorts. Patritism is at a high level, and that's good (except in cases of those few misguided persons who claim to be acting on their feelings of patriotism when they mistreat innocent people just because they're Muslims). Also, church attendance is up. People seem to be more interested in God these days and the refrain of "God Bless America" is once again popular.
But what exactly does "God Bless America" mean? I fear that for too many people, it simply means "Please, God, protect us from the evil doers". So what happens if we suddenly were miraculously pulled from this jam we're in and all terrorist were dead and we somehow knew we'd never be in danger again? I fear that if that happened, we would go back to being the nation we largely were before - greedy, immoral, selfish people. And we would once again forget what God has done for us.
In all this recent talk of a nation "returning to God", one thing that is unfortunately missing from most people is the idea of repentance. We need to be on our knees asking God for forgiveness for those areas in which we have abandoned him - immorality, greed, selfishness, hatred, and complacency. We need to rededicate our hearts and lives to the service of God, and in so doing, we can make such a positive impact on the world. It's not enough to ask God to "bless us". In fact, I would assert that to do so without repentence is an exercise in futility. Yes, God might get us out of this jam we're in, but if we continue on the course we're in, if we don't repent and turn from our evil ways, we will eventually be given what we deserve.
Thie preceding sentiment is not just how I feel about the USA; it's how I feel about the entire world. And I call now upon all Christians who read and agree with me to be in prayer that all the peoples of the world will confess and repent, and make a commitment to be used by God for the advancement of His kingdom and gospel. Thanks for reading.


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Old 11-12-2001, 10:34 AM   #3
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Old 11-12-2001, 01:16 PM   #4
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when is someone an America-hater?

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Old 11-12-2001, 02:36 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Salome:
when is someone an America-hater?
When they constantly bash America, no matter what America does. I don't consider you one. But there are 3 people on this forum whom I definitely consider US-haters.
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Old 11-12-2001, 04:55 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by mikal:
that's the point of the game. Over the next couple of days he will drop hints. Whoever guesses right gets to lock any thread of their choice!
I honestly didn't intend this to be a thread about who or who isn't a USA-basher, I just mentioned that I don't understand why anyone would be a USA-hater. But I don't think it's a secret that I consider Patti Jones and BLOCK to be the other 2 USA-haters.
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Old 11-12-2001, 06:01 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:
[BI honestly didn't intend this to be a thread about who or who isn't a USA-basher, I just mentioned that I don't understand why anyone would be a USA-hater. But I don't think it's a secret that I consider Patti Jones and BLOCK to be the other 2 USA-haters.[/B]
Just so you know, I was just joking. I actually pretty much agree with all of your posts about the current situation. That's why I usually don't post much. I just let you do the talking!

Hope you weren't offended by my comment.

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Old 11-12-2001, 06:27 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by mikal:

Hope you weren't offended by my comment.
Not at all. I knew you were joking by the smiley. I just didn't want anyone to misinterpret the intent of my original post.
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Old 11-12-2001, 06:55 PM   #9
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[quote]Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:
[b]
Quote:
Originally posted by mikal:
that's the point of the game. Over the next couple of days he will drop hints. Whoever guesses right gets to lock any thread of their choice!
I honestly didn't intend this to be a thread about who or who isn't a USA-basher, I just mentioned that I don't understand why anyone would be a USA-hater. But I don't think it's a secret that I consider Patti Jones and BLOCK to be the other 2 USA-haters.
It makes me feel SO sad that you didnt count DrGonzo in too, 'cos I think he thinks a LOT alike me...and also Drew (Eleanor Rigby here).

And It makes me feel SO sad that you cant see through your patrioterism. I have tons of US friends and they will allways be the best!

BTW, Just call me Patti!

Peace!

PS OH! MY GOD!: If you think Im Anti US I dont know what would you think I am for my own country! Argentina killer?
Proud PS: Of being count in Holy John's list!

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[This message has been edited by Patti Jones (edited 11-12-2001).]
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Old 11-12-2001, 07:46 PM   #10
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Okay Patti, I'll bite.

If you're such an equal-opportunity national-government-basher, why don't you tell us about some of the rotten things Argentina has done?
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Old 11-12-2001, 08:00 PM   #11
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It's my belief that God blesses each and every one of us on earth. Not just America. Not just the "faithful". There's a part of Gospel scripture that states that "the rain falls on everyone; the good and the bad".( and just WHO IS the "good" and the "bad"???)

... the thing is, one has to acknowledge and accept these blessings, and make something of the "doors" that are open to one. One can do this by turning towards God, and living for God, and ... MOST difficult of all, TRUST God... Come what may come.
Remember, if you call yourself a "Christian", then you are called to believe that this life indeed is NOT all there is. You are called to believe that the eternal afterlife makes this life on earth look small, perhaps trivial, and definately more painful and limiting than eternal life with God.
Perhaps instead of "God Bless American", we should all have "In God We Trust" bumper stickers.
... To trust God... through possible continued pain and terror... the death of many...the fall of countries... OR perhaps NONE of any of these!

I have NO control over this.
That fact has been a very painful thing for me to learn and accept since Sept. 11.
... So, I "give it all to God", and live my life as before... and perhaps improve on many things. AND I am very grateful, for I know I am very blessed indeed.

By the way... most every night, when I am on my knees, besides praying for us all, I do pray for Osama bin Laden.

...damn, its hard!!!!

but I do. I ask God to forgive him (as I ask God to forgive ME for feeling hate towards him), and I ask that perhaps he may change... or that this whole mess may NOT turn out as horrific as we all fear it might.

Anyway... Peace be with you all.

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Old 11-12-2001, 08:10 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Trash Can:
Perhaps instead of "God Bless American", we should all have "In God We Trust" bumper stickers.
... To trust God... through possible continued pain and terror... the death of many...the fall of countries... OR perhaps NONE of any of these!
TC, glad to have ya back! And what a good post you make! About the bumper sticker idea, I'd rather have "In God We Trust" written on people's hearts than on their cars.
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Old 11-12-2001, 08:37 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:
And I call now upon all Christians who read and agree with me to be in prayer that all the peoples of the world will confess and repent, and make a commitment to be used by God for the advancement of His kingdom and gospel.
While I think your intent is good, statements like this are dangerous and exclusionary.
I don't wish to get into a religious debate (because they inevitably are useless and lead to nothing but heated argument), but when you partition Christians off from other major religions, and from atheism and agnosticism (I describe myself as the latter), I find it quite mean-spirited and contradictory to the otherwise honorable ideas of your post.




[This message has been edited by mug222 (edited 11-12-2001).]
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Old 11-12-2001, 10:29 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by mug222:
While I think your intent is good, statements like this are dangerous and exclusionary.
I don't wish to get into a religious debate (because they inevitably are useless and lead to nothing but heated argument), but when you partition Christians off from other major religions, and from atheism and agnosticism (I describe myself as the latter), I find it quite mean-spirited and contradictory to the otherwise honorable ideas of your post.
[This message has been edited by mug222 (edited 11-12-2001).]
What is mean-spirited and contradictory about it? Athiests don't believe in God, so why would I call on them to pray for the world to repent and turn to God? Agnostics don't know if they believe or not, so why would I call on them to pray for the world to repent and turn to God? I believe that Christianity is the way, not Islam, not Buddhism, not Hinduism, not New Age religions. So why would I ask other religions, which I don't believe are the way, to pray to the God I believe in? Or is it the fact that I believe solely in Christianity that you find offensive? If that's the case, I don't know what to say except that in order to believe that Christianity is true, I must believe that religions that are different from Christianity are false. It would be the same if I believed that Islam was the way. Sorry, I just don't see what you find mean-spirited and contradictory about urging people who believe the same way as I do to pray. I'm not saying I don't care for non-Christians. I'm not saying that non-Christians are any less than Christians. All I'm saying is that I believe that the reason the world is in such a sorry shape is because we have embraced the darkness and turned from the light, and that I believe in the power of prayer to make the world a better place, and naturally when I pray, I want to pray with people who believe in the same Lord that I do.

[This message has been edited by 80sU2isBest (edited 11-12-2001).]
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Old 11-12-2001, 10:33 PM   #15
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80sU2IsBest:

I like what you have to say in here and your call to prayer. Unforunately, our enemies want America to be "on its knees" in another way, not exactly prayer.

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