Amazing! A baby survives being born at 22 weeks.

[AEON]

for fuck's sake AEON. it's been stated OVER AND OVER that nearly all abortions that happen in the 2nd and 3rd trimesters are done for MEDICAL REASONS which is why it remains legal.
.

lol - you just answered it the same way again with your "nearly all" comment.

 

[BVS]

lol - you just answered it the same way again with your "nearly all" comment.

Well please show me any statement in real life that has absolution.

 

[Irvine511]

lol - you just answered it the same way again with your "nearly all" comment.

so what do you want AEON? total illegality for any abortion past 12 weeks, or legality for the perfectly sane reason of medical concerns with the off-chance that someone might wait until the 13th week to have an abortion?

btw, the tiny amount of abortions done past the first trimester that aren't for medical reasons are usually in very, very young teens who hide their pregnancy and live in denial. that's a whole other problem that legality/illegality isn't prepared to address.

 

[AEON]

yes, someone does retain that legal right .

Wow - so 2 seconds before someone is born - you are actually arguing that the mother has the legal right to abort him/her. Irvine, that is a tough position to defend on any level (ethically, morally, and scientifically.)

 

[pgv]

Wow - so 2 seconds before someone is born - you are actually arguing that the mother has the legal right to abort him/her. Irvine, that is a tough position to defend on any level (ethically, morally, and scientifically.)

she's not arguing that - its a fact, someone does have that legal right.
you have been trying your hardest throughout this thread to get someone to say that.

 

[BVS]

I think someone is having a hard time understanding...

 

[Irvine511]

Wow - so 2 seconds before someone is born - you are actually arguing that the mother has the legal right to abort him/her. Irvine, that is a tough position to defend on any level (ethically, morally, and scientifically.)

simply because the right remains doesn't mean that it's ever exercised.

you should do some reading up on the extremely rare practice of late-term abortions (i won't use the term "partial birth abortion" because that's a loaded, politically calculated phrase).

and, whether good or bad, you've demonstrated exactly why there is a need to retain the legality of abortion up until birth. you're taking an example that comprises all of 0.17% of all abortions -- and, often, it's done when the baby has already died due to other causes -- and made it into the focus point of the pro-life/anti-choice movement. most doctors will defend it's legality because they see it as a rare but real medical necessity.

women don't do this for fun, no matter what fantasies you've concocted about pro-choice women.

 

[AEON]

she's not arguing that - its a fact, someone does have that legal right.
you have been trying your hardest throughout this thread to get someone to say that.

You are correct. It is currently legal to abort a baby 2 seconds before birth. My argument is that it shouldn't be, regardless of how rare this occurs.

 

[AEON]

I think someone is having a hard time understanding...

I 100 % agree

 

[BVS]

I 100 % agree

Maybe you should do something about this. Let me know if you need some help.

 

[Irvine511]

You are correct. It is currently legal to abort a baby 2 seconds before birth. My argument is that it shouldn't be, regardless of how rare this occurs.

what situations might arise with either the health of the mother, the health of the fetus, or even the life of the fetus (they can die in the womb) do you think might inspire a woman to consider a late-term abortion?

think about that, then let's discuss further.

if you're trying to get me to say that i think a late-term abortion is a good thing if it's due to convenience, you're wrong. i am not going to say that. i don't now anyone who would say that. i WOULD say that there are many medical reasons as to why late-term abortion remains legal, hence, i support it's legality.

and think about this, AEON: in order to make your points, you're creating a very sexist caricature of a pregnant woman. without this caricature -- analgous to the 1980s republican-fabricated caricature of a black "welfare queen" -- without dehumanizing and demonizing women, you're unable to maintain your argument.

 

[pgv]

if you're trying to get me to say that i think a late-term abortion is a good thing if it's due to convenience, you're wrong. i am not going to say that. i don't now anyone who would say that.

That's exactly what hes trying to get you to say, and like most anti-abortionists he probably thinks that all pro-choice people think like that too.
And that's just not the case.

 

[Liesje]

and, whether good or bad, you've demonstrated exactly why there is a need to retain the legality of abortion up until birth. you're taking an example that comprises all of 0.17% of all abortions -- and, often, it's done when the baby has already died due to other causes -- and made it into the focus point of the pro-life/anti-choice movement. most doctors will defend it's legality because they see it as a rare but real medical necessity.

women don't do this for fun, no matter what fantasies you've concocted about pro-choice women.

Precisely. My cousin hate a late term D&C and it was absolutely excruciating (emotionally...probably physically too), especially since her husband didn't have a good job and people were saying behind her back "this is better anyway b/c they can't afford another baby." Yep, that's right, PRO-LIFE people were saying it's better for the baby to just die on it's own. The baby had no heart beat and was not developing. For all intents and purposes, it had died. All my cousin has EVER wanted was to be a mother, seriously. She went to college to find a husband and dropped out as soon as she did, because she loves children and wants to be a mother. Sorry to say, she's not a heartless wench running off to the obgyn to get her babies sucked out b/c she just doesn't care or think they don't have rights.

We can't blanket ban late-term D&Cs because in some cases these babies are basically dead and leaving them inside, they will rot and kill the mother for no other reason than it grosses out some republican men.

 

[AEON]

I simply can't understand the "it barely happens so why make illegal" argument (essentially, that is the foundation of your argument). I don't think I ever will understand such reasoning.

Thanks to everyone for sharing your opinions regarding this. I think I've said all I can say at this point.

 

[pgv]

Precisely. My cousin hate a late term D&C and it was absolutely excruciating (emotionally...probably physically too), especially since her husband didn't have a good job and people were saying behind her back "this is better anyway b/c they can't afford another baby." Yep, that's right, PRO-LIFE people were saying it's better for the baby to just die on it's own. The baby had no heart beat and was not developing. For all intents and purposes, it had died. All my cousin has EVER wanted was to be a mother, seriously. She went to college to find a husband and dropped out as soon as she did, because she loves children and wants to be a mother. Sorry to say, she's not a heartless wench running off to the obgyn to get her babies sucked out b/c she just doesn't care or think they don't have rights.

We can't blanket ban late-term D&Cs because in some cases these babies are basically dead and leaving them inside, they will rot and kill the mother for no other reason than it grosses out some republican men.

Thats awful for your friend, that is an absolutely awful experience I could never imagine having to go through myself.
It is situations like this that really make me ask how anyone could consider banning abortion - why should your friend have to suffer more than she already did by going through with the pregnancy that could have harmed her?

 

[Liesje]

I simply can't understand the "it barely happens so why make illegal" argument (essentially, that is the foundation of your argument). I don't think I ever will understand such reasoning.

Did you read my post? If my cousin had not had the late term D&C, the baby would have literally rotted inside of her and caused her to go septic. And she WANTED this baby, more than anything else in the world. It DOES happen.

I don't understand the "the mother can die a horrible death so a baby that is already dead can be carried full term" argument.

 

[BVS]

I simply can't understand the "it barely happens so why make illegal" argument (essentially, that is the foundation of your argument). I don't think I ever will understand such reasoning.

No, I think you simply don't read or choose not to understand what people are telling you.

 

[pgv]

I think AOEN doesn't know how to reply to your post Liesje as even he knows it proves that abortion shouldn't be banned.
Thats why hes chosen to ignore that post - because he doesn't want to agree.

 

[Justin24]

Please answer me this. When we do die and we meet the maker what will your answer be when he asks why did you chose to abort or why do you support abortion? If you believe and please just give me an answer.

 

[BVS]

Please answer me this. When we do die and we meet the maker what will your answer be when he asks why did you chose to abort or why do you support abortion? If you believe and please just give me an answer.

I can honestly tell him/her it may save a woman's life. What will you say about your support for DP? Can't quite say the same thing, can you?

 

[anitram]

I can honestly tell him/her it may save a woman's life. What will you say about your support for DP?

Or the war in Iraq....
Or illegal immigrants....

Self-righteousness before God probably won't get you far. I don't know, but I'm just guessing.

 

[Justin24]

I can honestly tell him/her it may save a woman's life. What will you say about your support for DP? Can't quite say the same thing, can you?

I will say I didn't murder anyone like those who have been executed have.

 

[Justin24]

Or the war in Iraq....
Or illegal immigrants....

Self-righteousness before God probably won't get you far. I don't know, but I'm just guessing.

Never said I was self-righteous. I wonder how you will be infront of god when your past comes to light. Are you pure and innocent?

 

[pgv]

I wonder how you will be infront of god when your past comes to light. Are you pure and innocent?

I'm sorry, but what on earth has that got to do with her support for abortion?!

 

[Justin24]

Read above thank you.

 

[BVS]

I will say I didn't murder anyone like those who have been executed have.

What if he tells you some of them weren't guilty? Then you're screwed.

You are being self-righteous and treading in deep waters, be careful.

 

[Justin24]

What if he tells you some of them weren't guilty? Then you're screwed.

You are being self-righteous and treading in deep waters, be careful.

Treading waters? Where here or in heaven? And if so God know's and he will deal with the executioner.

What I don't get is murder is not acceptable which is should not be. But to remove a BABY (NOT A GROWTH) is perfectly fine?

 

[anitram]

Never said I was self-righteous. I wonder how you will be infront of god when your past comes to light. Are you pure and innocent?

Excuse me, I never asked anyone else here to justify themselves before God. You did.

 

[BVS]

Where here or in heaven?

In life.

And if so God know's and he will deal with the executioner.

And those who support it. You honestly think you can wash your hand of it, just because you didn't actaully throw the switch?

 

[Vincent Vega]

Never said I was self-righteous. I wonder how you will be infront of god when your past comes to light. Are you pure and innocent?

If it was a sin you wouldn't stand before God, would you?
And if you stood before God, it was no sin, so why should he ask you about it?
Just small talk?