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Old 02-21-2007, 06:15 PM   #61
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Originally posted by Angela Harlem


That's truly amazing, Icelle. Your mum and yourself must have beaten some odds back then!


given the technology, or lack of, it was a struggle. my mother was told that i too, was a mass of skin, cells, blood, no heartbeat. because of this, i cannot fathom abortion just because the mother has rights to terminate. its not a popular stance but i wont apologize for what i believe in.
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Old 02-21-2007, 07:32 PM   #62
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Originally posted by icelle
i was born at 24 weeks gestation. i spent one month in an incubator after my mom gave birth. she fought like hell to keep me alive. im grateful to her for that. i believe all babies should have a right to live.
amen.
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Old 02-21-2007, 10:28 PM   #63
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Originally posted by AEON


Yet, according to you, it is still the mother's choice at week 22. As it is at week 23 - week 24,25...all the way until birth.

A post earlier in this thread claimed a 22 week old abortion falls into the "9% of the all abortions" category. That's maybe 100,000 babies such as this girl being ripped apart every year in America. To say, there is "never" a week 22 is false.



According to your logic, the 22 week old baby could be born perfectly healthy, but if the mother decided she didn't want the child, even after birth, she can go over and kill her. And not just kill the baby with a bottle filled with hemlock, but walk over and pop a hole in the soft skull and vacuum out the brains.
You've never spoken face to face to a woman who has had an abortion, have you?
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Old 02-21-2007, 11:18 PM   #64
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Originally posted by blueeyedgirl


You've never spoken face to face to a woman who has had an abortion, have you?
Yep. My sister.
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Old 02-22-2007, 12:11 AM   #65
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Really? Curious attitude then. Not that it matters much, I don't spend much time in FYM.
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Old 02-22-2007, 12:27 AM   #66
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Originally posted by blueeyedgirl
Really? Curious attitude then. Not that it matters much, I don't spend much time in FYM.
Why is it so curious? She absolutely regrets her decision. She has gone on to have another child, a wonderful little boy; but she is still disturbed by the abortion.

I use graphic images because I want to challenge people to REALLY think about what they are advocating. This is more than a t-shirt wearing, bumper-sticker slapping, march around campus with Woman Studies' majors issue - this is a real, sadistic, barbaric, and murderous act. The birth of this little baby girl puts a real face on those that are ripped apart limb by limb every single day under the umbrella of a right to privacy.
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Old 02-22-2007, 01:12 AM   #67
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You and I shall agree to disagree.
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Old 02-22-2007, 02:22 AM   #68
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What did you say to the father of this baby, AEON? He murdered this baby too, just like your sister did. How much time do you suggest she and the father should spend in jail, by the way?
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Old 02-22-2007, 09:05 AM   #69
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Originally posted by Angela Harlem
What did you say to the father of this baby, AEON? He murdered this baby too, just like your sister did. How much time do you suggest she and the father should spend in jail, by the way?
I didn't find out until many years after the event. The father of the baby has essentially disappeared.

Being that the abortion was legal at the time - she shouldn't spend anytime in jail. If it were illegal and there were known legal consequences, I imagine this would have impacted her decision.
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Old 02-22-2007, 10:18 AM   #70
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Originally posted by partygirlvox


But could that baby have survived at 22 weeks without being heavily aided by doctors and living off machines for months?
The answer is no, and it's lucky that is has survived at all, so I don't think it puts whether abortion is right or not into question at all.
I think it DOES bring up a lot of questions, since it's legal in most places to kill a 22 week 'fetus' via partial birth abortion. Why is it that this cute little baby is so precious to everyone now that we can see its face? If it had gotten its little spinal column cut and its brain sucked out it would have been disposed of as so much 'tissue.' Seeing this baby's story should put a face on the issue to those who only consider 'choice' and not the reality of what is living, or dying, behind it.
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Old 02-22-2007, 10:21 AM   #71
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Originally posted by Angela Harlem
What did you say to the father of this baby, AEON? He murdered this baby too, just like your sister did. How much time do you suggest she and the father should spend in jail, by the way?
It's also hard for me to accept that in many cases, when a guy brutalizes a pregnant woman and kills the baby, he's charged with that, but if the woman 'chooses' to end its life on her own, it's some kind of wonderful and noble thing to be defended as right. Actually, a woman who aborts is even more guilty of intentional killing than a guy who gets drunk and beats her up, but doesn't intend to hurt the child, though they are both wrong.
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Old 02-22-2007, 10:27 AM   #72
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Agreed, Butterscotch.
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Old 02-22-2007, 10:30 AM   #73
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Originally posted by coemgen
Agreed, Butterscotch.
Thank you! I was so afraid to post that, I was afraid I was going to get flamed. It is something everyone should think about whether they want to or not.
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Old 02-22-2007, 10:58 AM   #74
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i'm still failing to under stand why the anti-abortion people -- who, believe it or not, i do understand where you are coming from -- aren't addressing the following points which have been made over and over:

1. the vast, vast majority of abortions take place in the first trimester, i.e., the first 12 weeks

2. the vast majority of abortions that happen after the first trimester are usually for medical reasons -- the mother will die, the baby doesn't have a brain stem, the baby's heart isn't developing and s/he will die shortly after birth (my best friend would have had a little brother but he died 3 days after birth for precisely this reason), etc.

3. this mother obviously wants this baby.

i also think we're missing something here. we're getting very emotional about the fact that we can see hands and feet and therefore it must be a person, but i don't think anatomy is a requirement for sentient personhood. it's considered a medical miracle that the baby can survive outside of the womb at 22 weeks. that's why we're reading about it.
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Old 02-22-2007, 01:50 PM   #75
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Originally posted by Irvine511
i'm still failing to under stand why the anti-abortion people -- who, believe it or not, i do understand where you are coming from -- aren't addressing the following points which have been made over and over:

1. the vast, vast majority of abortions take place in the first trimester, i.e., the first 12 weeks
And? What does it matter what percentage of abortions is done at any given time? Unless, you are advocating making abortion illegal AFTER 12 weeks, then I’d see why you are making this statement.
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
2. the vast majority of abortions that happen after the first trimester are usually for medical reasons -- the mother will die, the baby doesn't have a brain stem, the baby's heart isn't developing and s/he will die shortly after birth (my best friend would have had a little brother but he died 3 days after birth for precisely this reason), etc.
Most pro-life folks I know understand that there are certain medical emergencies that warrant an abortion.

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

3. this mother obviously wants this baby.

i also think we're missing something here. we're getting very emotional about the fact that we can see hands and feet and therefore it must be a person, but i don't think anatomy is a requirement for sentient personhood. it's considered a medical miracle that the baby can survive outside of the womb at 22 weeks. that's why we're reading about it.
What does want/not want have to do with the survival of the 22 week old baby girl? At 22 weeks “outside” the womb, is she suddenly a different being? Or is she still susceptible to her mother’s desire to keep her because she can’t live on her own?
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