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Old 02-26-2007, 12:09 PM   #151
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Originally posted by Irvine511



for fuck's sake AEON. it's been stated OVER AND OVER that nearly all abortions that happen in the 2nd and 3rd trimesters are done for MEDICAL REASONS which is why it remains legal.
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lol - you just answered it the same way again with your "nearly all" comment.
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Old 02-26-2007, 12:11 PM   #152
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lol - you just answered it the same way again with your "nearly all" comment.
Well please show me any statement in real life that has absolution.
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Old 02-26-2007, 12:13 PM   #153
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Originally posted by AEON



lol - you just answered it the same way again with your "nearly all" comment.


so what do you want AEON? total illegality for any abortion past 12 weeks, or legality for the perfectly sane reason of medical concerns with the off-chance that someone might wait until the 13th week to have an abortion?

btw, the tiny amount of abortions done past the first trimester that aren't for medical reasons are usually in very, very young teens who hide their pregnancy and live in denial. that's a whole other problem that legality/illegality isn't prepared to address.
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Old 02-26-2007, 12:13 PM   #154
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Originally posted by Irvine511



yes, someone does retain that legal right .
Wow - so 2 seconds before someone is born - you are actually arguing that the mother has the legal right to abort him/her. Irvine, that is a tough position to defend on any level (ethically, morally, and scientifically.)
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Old 02-26-2007, 12:35 PM   #155
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Originally posted by AEON


Wow - so 2 seconds before someone is born - you are actually arguing that the mother has the legal right to abort him/her. Irvine, that is a tough position to defend on any level (ethically, morally, and scientifically.)

she's not arguing that - its a fact, someone does have that legal right.
you have been trying your hardest throughout this thread to get someone to say that.
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Old 02-26-2007, 12:41 PM   #156
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I think someone is having a hard time understanding...
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Old 02-26-2007, 12:48 PM   #157
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Originally posted by AEON


Wow - so 2 seconds before someone is born - you are actually arguing that the mother has the legal right to abort him/her. Irvine, that is a tough position to defend on any level (ethically, morally, and scientifically.)


simply because the right remains doesn't mean that it's ever exercised.

you should do some reading up on the extremely rare practice of late-term abortions (i won't use the term "partial birth abortion" because that's a loaded, politically calculated phrase).

and, whether good or bad, you've demonstrated exactly why there is a need to retain the legality of abortion up until birth. you're taking an example that comprises all of 0.17% of all abortions -- and, often, it's done when the baby has already died due to other causes -- and made it into the focus point of the pro-life/anti-choice movement. most doctors will defend it's legality because they see it as a rare but real medical necessity.

women don't do this for fun, no matter what fantasies you've concocted about pro-choice women.
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Old 02-26-2007, 12:59 PM   #158
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Originally posted by partygirlvox



she's not arguing that - its a fact, someone does have that legal right.
you have been trying your hardest throughout this thread to get someone to say that.
You are correct. It is currently legal to abort a baby 2 seconds before birth. My argument is that it shouldn't be, regardless of how rare this occurs.
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:00 PM   #159
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
I think someone is having a hard time understanding...
I 100 % agree
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:05 PM   #160
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I 100 % agree
Maybe you should do something about this. Let me know if you need some help.
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:14 PM   #161
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Originally posted by AEON


You are correct. It is currently legal to abort a baby 2 seconds before birth. My argument is that it shouldn't be, regardless of how rare this occurs.


what situations might arise with either the health of the mother, the health of the fetus, or even the life of the fetus (they can die in the womb) do you think might inspire a woman to consider a late-term abortion?

think about that, then let's discuss further.

if you're trying to get me to say that i think a late-term abortion is a good thing if it's due to convenience, you're wrong. i am not going to say that. i don't now anyone who would say that. i WOULD say that there are many medical reasons as to why late-term abortion remains legal, hence, i support it's legality.

and think about this, AEON: in order to make your points, you're creating a very sexist caricature of a pregnant woman. without this caricature -- analgous to the 1980s republican-fabricated caricature of a black "welfare queen" -- without dehumanizing and demonizing women, you're unable to maintain your argument.
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:24 PM   #162
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Originally posted by Irvine511






if you're trying to get me to say that i think a late-term abortion is a good thing if it's due to convenience, you're wrong. i am not going to say that. i don't now anyone who would say that.

That's exactly what hes trying to get you to say, and like most anti-abortionists he probably thinks that all pro-choice people think like that too.
And that's just not the case.
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Old 02-26-2007, 05:57 PM   #163
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Originally posted by Irvine511

and, whether good or bad, you've demonstrated exactly why there is a need to retain the legality of abortion up until birth. you're taking an example that comprises all of 0.17% of all abortions -- and, often, it's done when the baby has already died due to other causes -- and made it into the focus point of the pro-life/anti-choice movement. most doctors will defend it's legality because they see it as a rare but real medical necessity.

women don't do this for fun, no matter what fantasies you've concocted about pro-choice women.
Precisely. My cousin hate a late term D&C and it was absolutely excruciating (emotionally...probably physically too), especially since her husband didn't have a good job and people were saying behind her back "this is better anyway b/c they can't afford another baby." Yep, that's right, PRO-LIFE people were saying it's better for the baby to just die on it's own. The baby had no heart beat and was not developing. For all intents and purposes, it had died. All my cousin has EVER wanted was to be a mother, seriously. She went to college to find a husband and dropped out as soon as she did, because she loves children and wants to be a mother. Sorry to say, she's not a heartless wench running off to the obgyn to get her babies sucked out b/c she just doesn't care or think they don't have rights.

We can't blanket ban late-term D&Cs because in some cases these babies are basically dead and leaving them inside, they will rot and kill the mother for no other reason than it grosses out some republican men.
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Old 02-26-2007, 06:33 PM   #164
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I simply can't understand the "it barely happens so why make illegal" argument (essentially, that is the foundation of your argument). I don't think I ever will understand such reasoning.

Thanks to everyone for sharing your opinions regarding this. I think I've said all I can say at this point.
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Old 02-26-2007, 06:35 PM   #165
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Precisely. My cousin hate a late term D&C and it was absolutely excruciating (emotionally...probably physically too), especially since her husband didn't have a good job and people were saying behind her back "this is better anyway b/c they can't afford another baby." Yep, that's right, PRO-LIFE people were saying it's better for the baby to just die on it's own. The baby had no heart beat and was not developing. For all intents and purposes, it had died. All my cousin has EVER wanted was to be a mother, seriously. She went to college to find a husband and dropped out as soon as she did, because she loves children and wants to be a mother. Sorry to say, she's not a heartless wench running off to the obgyn to get her babies sucked out b/c she just doesn't care or think they don't have rights.

We can't blanket ban late-term D&Cs because in some cases these babies are basically dead and leaving them inside, they will rot and kill the mother for no other reason than it grosses out some republican men.
Thats awful for your friend, that is an absolutely awful experience I could never imagine having to go through myself.
It is situations like this that really make me ask how anyone could consider banning abortion - why should your friend have to suffer more than she already did by going through with the pregnancy that could have harmed her?
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