Al-Qaeda is back?

[Klaus]

'Al-Qaeda' attacks rock Saudi capital
Medical staff say at least 50 people were injured
from BBC News

Ten Americans and many other foreigners are believed to have been killed in a series of suicide bomb attacks on foreign housing compounds and businesses in the Saudi capital Riyadh, US officials say.

An Australian man, a Saudi national and a Lebanese citizen were also killed and at least 50 others were injured when the bombers drove cars filled with explosives at four targets around the city.

US Secretary of State Colin Powell, who arrived in Saudi Arabia hours after the attacks, said: "Right now it seems as if we have lost 10 Americans killed ... Many other lives were lost from many other nationalities."

He said the "cowardly" operation bore all the signs of Osama Bin Laden's al-Qaeda network.

"Terrorism strikes everywhere and everyone," he said.

"It is a threat to the civilised world."

He was greeted on arrival by Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud al-Faisal, who promised to co-operate with the US in its war on terror.

The French news agency AFP said three suicide bombers were also reported killed in the blasts.

Saudi Arabia is the birthplace of al-Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden and 15 of the 19 men suspected of carrying out the 11 September suicide attacks on New York and Washington.

Gunfire

Mr Powell arrived in Riyadh on Tuesday to hold talks with Crown Prince Abdullah bin Abdul-Aziz as part of a Middle East tour.

He hopes to gain Arab support in Riyadh for a new US-backed peace plan to end the Palestinian and Israeli unrest.

US Ambassador to Saudi Arabia Robert Jordan said he had visited more than 40 American injured in the city hospitals.

Mr Jordan said one of the compounds attacked was a scene of flames and smoke where at least 12 homes and 16 apartment complexes were destroyed.

"There is great concern over the possible injury and loss of life in that particular compound," he said.

The second compound attacked was a several-storey residential apartment building for single men working as defence contractors which was "very seriously damaged by an explosion that made it all the way in to the building", he said.

The third compound was less damaged as the bomb exploded at the gate rather than inside the premises.

In one of the attacks, gunmen driving a black Chevrolet Caprice sedan are reported to have shot their way into the residential compound.

Security officials said the car, packed with explosives, crashed through the gates of the compound and was then detonated.

The force of the explosion shook nearby buildings and windows, witnesses said.

Security warnings

Workers from a US firm which helps trains the Saudi National Guard were reported to among those injured.

The Associated Press news agency said fourth explosion was aimed at the headquarters of the Saudi Maintenance Company, also known as Siyanco.

American residents have been advised by the US embassy in Riyadh to stay at home and "away from windows and doors".

"Saudi security forces are responding to the attacks and have been asked to take the appropriate measures to protect all other sites in the kingdom where Americans reside," an embassy statement said.

On 1 May the US State Department warned American citizens against non-essential travel to Saudi Arabia, citing intelligence that terrorist groups may be in the "final phases" of planning attacks against the American community there.

In recent months there have been a number of attacks on Western targets in the conservative Arab kingdom, including a string of shooting attacks against employees of western defence contractors in Saudi Arabia.

 

[V Nura]

they just dont' realize it...but everytime they do this...they just make the US prescence in the mid east stronger.



we're just goign to invade another country now because of crap like this.

 

[Klaus]

Arun V: they need the US military to justify their violence as an enemy like Bush needs the terrorism to justify his wars.

So it's a win/win situation for alquaida and the warhawks in the US government.

The big loosers are the people

 

[verte76]

Damn terrorists.

 

[Klaus]

The Saudi authorities have put the death toll at 29 - including seven Americans and nine suspected attackers and 194 injured

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

No offense Klaus, but Al Qaeda needs nothing to justify their violence in their own minds, other than their own twisted views.

I knew they would strike again, and I fear it's only a matter of time before they do it again on US soil.

 

[Klaus]

MrsSpringsteen:

you are right, but they have to "sell" their violence to the public to get support

 

[MissVelvetDress_75]

 

[STING2]

Klaus,

"Arun V: they need the US military to justify their violence as an enemy like Bush needs the terrorism to justify his wars."

"So it's a win/win situation for alquaida and the warhawks in the US government."

"The big loosers are the people"

I can't stand this rubbish that people on 9/11 died because of US foreign policy. Whats worse is the suggestion that if we just ran across the ocean and hid in a corner, these problems would just go away. Thats absurd. Anyone looking at the appeasement of 1930s knows this.

What would you suggests the US government do to prevent a a terrorist bombing like the one in Oklahoma City?

Terrorism is the weapon of sick, dumb, twisted, evil people. It accomplishes nothing.

The American people will never let where and when they decide to use its military overseas be dictated by any terrorist anywhere. The vast majority of the American people have supported the USA's foreign military presence and wars abroad of the past 20 years. The American people are not about to give in to terrorism or European wishes of American military isolationism.

By the way, Bush is NOT the equilivant of Al Qauda.

 

[verte76]

Chirac called up Bush shortly after the 9/11 attack to express French outrage over the attack and opposition to terrorism in general. European countries, including Germany and Russia, and Moslem countries, and all countries joined in condemning terror and terrorists. I remember watching an interview with Queen Noor of Jordan shortly after the attack. She was pretty freaked over the whole thing. We can have our side disagreements but when push comes to shove we all condemn terrorists and terrorism. Except for the terrorists, of course. They're crud.

 

[STING2]

.......plus Palestinian people who were cheering the 9/11 attacks when they learned what happened.

 

[ALEXRUS]

Klaus,

1. I can't stand this rubbish that people on 9/11 died because of US foreign policy. Whats worse is the suggestion that if we just ran across the ocean and hid in a corner, these problems would just go away. Thats absurd. Anyone looking at the appeasement of 1930s knows this.

2. What would you suggests the US government do to prevent a a terrorist bombing like the one in Oklahoma City?

3. Terrorism is the weapon of sick, dumb, twisted, evil people. It accomplishes nothing.

1. Appeasement of 1930s was a shame but now we are dealing not with a country or a regime but with a phenomenon, an ideology.

2. To listen to opinion of the others to start with...

3. Well, you talk of those who execute acts of terrorism. Indeed, most of them are fanatics. But there are people behind them who plan, direct, finance... They are intelligent and smart, they know how to achieve their goals. It is much more difficult to fight them because they are not visible, they do not represent a country or a religion. They live among us. Until the current US administration realises that and starts dealing with REAL threats rather than with ostensible ones, there will be no progress in the war on terrorism...

 

[STING2]

Klaus,

The US government always listens to other opinions. Just because the US government and people listen to militia(anti-government rednecks) and the French or Germans, does not mean the government and people of the USA have to adopt their course of action on certain issues or their type of government in the "militia" case.

Some of the most experienced and tallented people on terrorism and its root causes work for the FBI, CIA and US State Department. They are hard at work every day on strategies and solutions to catch current terrorists and prevent others.

I'm sorry, but adopting French or German policies on Iraq has nothing to do with and will not stop terrorism around the world. Not engaging in military or police operations to catch terrorist will not make anyone safer from terror.

In the past 18 months, the USA has rolled up the terrorist network in Afghanistan, changed the government there, and planted the seeds for democracy and economic development. No other country or power in history has achieved as much as the USA has in Afganistan in the past 18 months.

The USA, UK, and Australians did in 3 weeks what peaceful UN inspectors failed to in 12 years in Iraq. They successfully disarmed Saddam's regime by destroying it. Now a process of economic development and democratic development can take place for the people. Something that used to be only wild dream for most people in Iraq.

These efforts and others have destroyed terrorist infrastructure and terrorist themselves. Al Quada since 2001 has been a terrible failure. There has not been one single attack on the USA. Al Quada members were killed and captured by the hundreds and thousands at their base in Afghanstan that they stupidly thought would be impenetrable to US military forces. My friend observed the destruction of their bases and was involved with the dentention and movement of several of the prisoners.

Al Quada had plans to start movement in Muslim cells in Bosnia and Kosovo. Both of those failed. The rate of terrorism worldwide is less after 9/11 than before.

A strong and effective terrorist organization should be able to strike multiple times every month at will nearly everywhere. Many of the attacks since 9/11 attributed to Al Quada may not have even been Al Quada. Many are refering to the attack in Saudi Arabia as a splinter group from Al Quada.

 

[STING2]

Alexrus,

I am sorry I refered to you as being "Klaus".

 

[V Nura]

No offense Klaus, but Al Qaeda needs nothing to justify their violence in their own minds, other than their own twisted views.

I knew they would strike again, and I fear it's only a matter of time before they do it again on US soil.

the thing is...I really dont' see al qaeda accomplishing anything by this...except for making us invade another afghanistan/iraq.



All they've really accomplished is the imposition of Western systems on two countries....do they want to make it 3?

 

[sharky]

In the past 18 months, the USA has rolled up the terrorist network in Afghanistan, changed the government there, and planted the seeds for democracy and economic development. No other country or power in history has achieved as much as the USA has in Afganistan in the past 18 months.

Excuse me, but that's one of the dumbest things I have heard. If we did so much in Afghanistan, why was there a bombing in Saudi Arabia? Weren't we supposed to be getting the people that did this? No, this bombing was allowed to happen because we removed our troops from Afghanistan before we found bin Laden, even though that is was what we were SUPPOSED to do, according to Bush. People died because Bush had to finish his daddy's war in Iraq instead of completing the task at hand in Afghanistan. How can you not see this Sting?

And in case you think I'm the only one, check out part of this editorial from the Times of London, which I believe sums my idea up.

"The Saudi bombs are being attributed to the al Qaeda network of Osama bin Laden. If so, we might reasonably ask for an inquiry into why two colossally expensive and destructive wars were fought by the West yet left unscathed the architect of all this woe. [Prime Minister Tony] Blair explicitly declared that bin Laden's capture was the purpose of the invasion of Afghanistan. He then alleged a "clear" link between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda as one of the pillars justifying the invasion of Iraq. I can see that the people of Afghanistan and Iraq may feel more free, for the moment, but that was not the point. The point is lying smothered in blood and rubble in Riyadh."

 

[STING2]

Sharky,

"Excuse me, but that's one of the dumbest things I have heard."

Really? Well lets see what you had to say.


"If we did so much in Afghanistan, why was there a bombing in Saudi Arabia?"

Because people in Saudi Arabia who had never been to Afghanistan or recieved support from anyone in Afghanistan, secured the means to blow up a building in their own country. If someone at interference.com went to the store tomorrow, bought the natural supplies to build a conventional bomb and then blew up a building downtown, would you link the bombing to Bin Ladin and Afghanistan?


"Weren't we supposed to be getting the people that did this? No, this bombing was allowed to happen because we removed our troops from Afghanistan before we found bin Laden, even though that is was what we were SUPPOSED to do, according to Bush.

I have a friend, A Captain in the US Marine Corp that spent 6 months all over Afghanistan in 2002. NO, US Troops were not pulled out of Afghanistan, and operations to hunt for terrorist continue there. While you were enjoying your life in a comfortable western environment, my friend was experiencing freezing weather in the mountains of Afghanistan, setting up base camps for special operations forces and working closely with FBI and CIA personal in the detention and interrigation of Al Quada prisoners.


"People died because Bush had to finish his daddy's war in Iraq instead of completing the task at hand in Afghanistan. How can you not see this Sting?"

How can you believe something that is so unsubstantiated and unobjective, and clearly false? Its political tabloid trash. US forces currently risking their lives in Afghanistan as I type this might throw up if they read that. But it appears from your posting that your completely ignorant of the fact that there are US, British, and German troops on the ground in Afghanistan right now conducting the very operations you say are not happening.


""The Saudi bombs are being attributed to the al Qaeda network of Osama bin Laden. If so, we might reasonably ask for an inquiry into why two colossally expensive and destructive wars were fought by the West yet left unscathed the architect of all this woe. [Prime Minister Tony] Blair explicitly declared that bin Laden's capture was the purpose of the invasion of Afghanistan. He then alleged a "clear" link between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda as one of the pillars justifying the invasion of Iraq. I can see that the people of Afghanistan and Iraq may feel more free, for the moment, but that was not the point. The point is lying smothered in blood and rubble in Riyadh.""

You know, I can promise you that 50 years from now, some place or some where in the world, a house will be broken into, a car will be stolen, and yes a bomb may go off somewhere created by a single individual. It obvious that if someone at interference.com went and bombed the Times Office in London, that people there would automatically link it to Al Quada and there for to Bin Ladin, then to Afghanistan, and the "military failure there", whish was caused by Bush war in Iraq(which was a wild success which they are obviously unhappy about). The goal of the times is not objectivity, but trying to find someway in justifing their criticism of the war in Iraq after it went so well. So naturally, two events that are essentially not related, get linked by them. It would be nice if some people could be professional enough to accept the fact that they were wrong about something instead of digging their hole deeper on the issue with wild unlinkable theory's.

Winning the war on terror does not mean that there will not be anymore terrorist incidents. Just like winning the war on crime does not mean there will not be anymore acts of crime. What were talking about here is the terror "RATE" or Crime "RATE". The Terror "rate" this year is the lowest it has been in 3 decades.

If Al Qauda was an effective terror organization, it would be able to launch multiple attacks every month anywhere in the world. What is important is the disruption of the organizations activities, not the capture of a single individual. Bin Ladin himself may be buried under a hundred feet of rock and rubble and not found for another 5,000 years. Of course people will claim he is still alive and he might very well be alive. But what has he been able to do since 9/11 except perhaps make unsubstantiated claims that he was the sole sponser of the few tiny terrorist incidents that have happened since 9/11.

 

[Klaus]

Arun V:

that's exactly my point i think that al-quaida needs the US military in the Arabic region.
A enemy who can't be seen isn't as valuable as someone in the country who can be "deamonized".

Maybe the fundamentalists can be the long-term winners in the Iraq war.
Maybe the US military made what al-qaida couldn't do: removing sadam to get a cleric government.

Sting:
i'm sorry that i don't had the time to reply. I'm affraid you have to wait a few more weeks. I'm in a hurry organizing a 2 weeks trip (begining in approx. 7 days) to LA and Kansas City.
I promise you not to ignore your statements and answer every point.

see you in a few weeks FYM'ers

Klaus

 

[ALEXRUS]

Klaus,

1. Some of the most experienced and tallented people on terrorism and its root causes work for the FBI, CIA and US State Department. They are hard at work every day on strategies and solutions to catch current terrorists and prevent others.



2. In the past 18 months, the USA has rolled up the terrorist network in Afghanistan, changed the government there, and planted the seeds for democracy and economic development. No other country or power in history has achieved as much as the USA has in Afganistan in the past 18 months.

The USA, UK, and Australians did in 3 weeks what peaceful UN inspectors failed to in 12 years in Iraq. They successfully disarmed Saddam's regime by destroying it. Now a process of economic development and democratic development can take place for the people. Something that used to be only wild dream for most people in Iraq.

These efforts and others have destroyed terrorist infrastructure and terrorist themselves. Al Quada since 2001 has been a terrible failure. There has not been one single attack on the USA. Al Quada members were killed and captured by the hundreds and thousands at their base in Afghanstan that they stupidly thought would be impenetrable to US military forces. My friend observed the destruction of their bases and was involved with the dentention and movement of several of the prisoners.

3. A strong and effective terrorist organization should be able to strike multiple times every month at will nearly everywhere. Many of the attacks since 9/11 attributed to Al Quada may not have even been Al Quada. Many are refering to the attack in Saudi Arabia as a splinter group from Al Quada.

1. I hope they do work but US administration seems to be too much carried away with the Iraqi issue now...

2. Your optimism is stunning. If you want to continue walking blind...it's up to you. International forces in Afganistan now are able to control ONLY Kabul and some outskirts....

3. Well, my dear, you can only GUESS what an effective and strong organization SHOULD, MAY, WANTS to do and when, where and how often it MAY WANT to strike

 

[Scarletwine]

Saudi Analyst have this to say about the attacks:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3023913.stm
"The attack really shows that the Americans were just an excuse -scapegoats," Mohammad al-Khereiji, a political analyst at the Saudi Arab News, told BBC News Online.

"The people behind these attacks, whether al-Qaeda or anyone else, are clearly seeking political power in Saudi Arabia and are playing the religious terrorism card."

There is no question in my mind that al-Qaeda has very strong sympathisers in the Saudi interior ministry. The very people who are meant to be cracking down on al-Qaeda-related terrorism are actually sympathetic to it

Frank Gardner
BBC security correspondent

Mohammad al-Khereiji says that most Saudis are shocked and angry at the attacks.

"If the Saudi authorities were to lead a big security clampdown against the attackers, this would be very popular here."

 

[STING2]

ALEXRUS,

"1. I hope they do work but US administration seems to be too much carried away with the Iraqi issue now..."

"2. Your optimism is stunning. If you want to continue walking blind...it's up to you. International forces in Afganistan now are able to control ONLY Kabul and some outskirts...."

"3. Well, my dear, you can only GUESS what an effective and strong organization SHOULD, MAY, WANTS to do and when, where and how often it MAY WANT to strike"

#1 Thats what the media would suggests and what the critics of the administration want to believe. You have to dig deaper than the surface noise to find the truth.

#2 Your presumptions and assumptions are stunning. I base what I know about Afghanistan from a good friend that was there for 6 long months in 2002 serving with the US Marine Corp. In his job he saw much of the country and was involved in multiple different kinds of operations. His optimism about the situation there does not come from the media or news, but from his own experience there. Long cold nights spent in the mountains and incredible heat in the valleys during the day. Encounters with all kinds of groups of people, dozens of languages, many never reported in Western Media.

The USA has better control of Afghanistan than any other foreign country has in Afghanistan's history. The USA has better control of the country than the Soviet Union did in the 1980s. The USA has done that with only 8,000 troops. The Soviet Union had 120,000 troops in there and they eventually left the country after having lost over 13,000 soldiers in combat. The USA has suffered less than 30 soldiers lossed in combat.

Economic development and stability plus political development and stability on a European level, in Afghanistan, is going to take decades. But in comparison to Afghanistan's own prior history, the country is in excellent shape considering its only been 18 months since the Taliban were kicked out of power. Its rather naive of people to point to problems here and there that one does not find in Europe and say, oops its not working. Economic and political development in a country like Afghanistan is not like going to the movies or ordering pizza. It takes time.

"3. Well, my dear, you can only GUESS what an effective and strong organization SHOULD, MAY, WANTS to do and when, where and how often it MAY WANT to strike"

That statement is more fitting for many women rather than Al Qauda.


Al Quada at its bests since 9/11, was more like a squirrel that occasionally finds a walnut. Terrorist in Chechnya, and Israel/Palestine, have performed better than Al Quada in the months since 9/11.

 

[MissVelvetDress_75]

i am surprised that no one has posted this story yet.

[q]Suicide blasts in Casablanca kill 41 amid worldwide terror alert
Sat May 17,11:32 AM ET


CASABLANCA (AFP) - At least 41 people were killed and scores more wounded in a string of bomb blasts that rocked Morocco's largest city Casablanca, leaving a trail of bloody carnage as the world was on alert for terror attacks.


AFP Photo


Reuters
Slideshow: Casablanca Terrorist Bombings




Belgium's consulate, a Jewish centre and cemetery, an international hotel and a bustling Spanish restaurant were hit by almost simultaneous explosions as residents were enjoying a Friday night out.


The five attacks follow a triple suicide bombing on Monday in Saudi Arabia blamed on al-Qaeda that killed 34 people, amid a series of terror alerts issued by Western governments for the Middle East, east Africa and Southeast Asia.


"These attacks bear the hallmarks of international terrorism," Moroccan Interior Minister Mostafa Sahel said Saturday.


It is the first time the north African kingdom, a staunch US ally that has been facing growing Muslim fundamentalism, has been hit by such a devastating attack.


The explosions caused chaos and panic in the city centre, with bloodied bodies and limbs on the streets, buildings bombed out, cars wrecked and glass and debris strewn about.


Officials said 41 people had been killed and about 100 injured.


"It's a bloodbath," said 40-year-old Hamid, at the scene of the bombing at a Spanish restaurant where about 20 people were believed to have been killed.


Top Pentagon (news - web sites) official Paul Wolfowitz blamed the blasts on "terrorists" seeking to block progress in the Arab world, while Russia said they bore the "signature" of Osama bin Laden (news - web sites)'s al-Qaeda network.


"These despicable acts come as another reminder that the fight against terrorism is a permanent priority that will require long-term efforts and active and close international cooperation," EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana said.


Officials said the victims were mainly Moroccans, although a Spanish diplomat said a Spanish national was believed to be among the dead.


The official MAP news agency said those killed included a hotel doorman and two police officers posted at the Belgian consulate.


No group immediately claimed responsibility, although the interior minister said there were similarities linking the Casablanca explosions with Monday's attacks in the Saudi capital.


He said three Moroccan suspects had been arrested, including one would-be suicide bomber injured in the blasts.


The deadliest of the blasts was at the Casa de Espana, a Spanish restaurant and cultural centre where a crowd of people were having dinner. Around 20 people are believed to have been killed including an elderly Frenchman who had lived in the country for about 40 years.


Spanish Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar, whose country was one of the closest US allies in the Iraq (news - web sites) crisis, blamed the attacks on "terrorism fuelled by a cruel and pitiless fanaticism."


Officials said three of the bombs were planted in cars, which exploded outside the Belgian consulate, at the Farah hotel -- better known by its former name, the Safir -- and at a Jewish cultural centre.





Witnesses of the attack on the Jewish centre told AFP the bodies of two suicide bombers were pulled out of the rubble. They said the toll would have been much higher had the centre not been hit after the start of the Jewish Sabbath.

A Belgian foreign ministry spokesman said the bomb that went off near the consulate may not have been aimed at the mission, adding that a US diplomat lived in a house close to the blast site, and that an Italian restaurant nearby was apparently Jewish-owned.

"The terrorists' goal was to disrupt Morocco's democratic process and political pluralism," Sahel said. "Morocco will not be intimidated by those who choose to kill innocent people."

The attacks came after Morocco delayed municipal elections that were due to be held in June, a move the local press said was linked to the increasing influence of Islamic fundamentalists in the mainly Muslim country.

Many members of radical Islamist groups have been arrested in Morocco in recent months.

"That they should choose to attack Morocco tells something about their terrible motivation," Wolfowitz said in Macedonia. "Morocco stands out in the Arab world as a country that is making significant strides towards democracy and I think the terrorists are opposed to progress."

In February al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden cited Morocco among a list of "apostate" Arab nations in a cassette message distributed to the media.

That month, three Saudi nationals accused of being part of an al-Qaeda cell were sentenced to 10 years in prison for plotting attacks against Western targets in Morocco and the Strait of Gibraltar last year.

Six Moroccan accomplices received jail terms of up to a year.

Australia, Britain and the United States -- which have stepped up their intelligence cooperation since the September 11, 2001 attacks -- released a wave of terrorism warnings to their citizens in recent days.

The move follows the end of the US-led war on Iraq, that was opposed by Morocco and triggered several demonstrations against the US action.

The US State Department released terrorism alerts covering the Middle East, north Africa, the Gulf and east Africa, while Britain also this week suspended all flights to and from Kenya because of an "imminent" terrorist threat. [/q]

 

[deep]

Klaus,



Terrorism is the weapon of sick, dumb, twisted, evil people. It accomplishes nothing.

.

In 1948 it gave the Jews in British Palastine a state.

 

[verte76]

I am nervous that the terrorist attack in Morocco was carried out by Al Qaeda. The orders to do the explosions and kill innocent people just might have been given by Osama bin Laden. I think we should try to catch that before he kills anyone else.

 

[TylerDurden]

You can catch Bin Laden, shut down Al Qaeda, but there are still millions and millions who support them, and it will only be a matter of time before someone steps up.

It's like there are millions and millions of people out there who are in need of 'something' and these dodgy salesman are convincing them of what they need, who is to blame for them not having it, and how to get it. You can kill the salesmen (and thats ok), but others can take their place. What you really need to do is take away the need for what they are selling. I don't think there's much of that going on, and thats the problem.

 

[STING2]

Deep,

"In 1948 it gave the Jews in British Palastine a state."

What an incredible misunderstanding of history. In 1948, Israel chose peace and the United Nations partition plan. The Arabs chose war. 5 Arab countries invaded Israel on the day of its independence. Arabs have been involved in terrorist operations ever since. The results speak for themselves. Israel is a strong democracy. Most Arab countries are dictatorships while the Palestinians have not shown the ability to accept any peace plan or the term "non-violent demonstration".

 

[STING2]

TylerDurden,

"You can catch Bin Laden, shut down Al Qaeda, but there are still millions and millions who support them, and it will only be a matter of time before someone steps up."

Australia has one of the highest standards of living in the world. But even there, there is still crime. The war on terror is much like the war on crime. It is not something you win, but rather, something you manage.

 

[Rono]

TylerDurden,

"
Australia has one of the highest standards of living in the world. But even there, there is still crime. The war on terror is much like the war on crime. It is not something you win, but rather, something you manage.

A war against a ideology is totaly different than a war against criminals.

A war against ideology can not be win only by military force.

 

[deep]

Deep,

"In 1948 it gave the Jews in British Palastine a state."

What an incredible misunderstanding of history. In 1948, Israel chose peace and the United Nations partition plan. The Arabs chose war. 5 Arab countries invaded Israel on the day of its independence. Arabs have been involved in terrorist operations ever since. The results speak for themselves. Israel is a strong democracy. Most Arab countries are dictatorships while the Palestinians have not shown the ability to accept any peace plan or the term "non-violent demonstration".

Sting,

I do not have a corner on "the truth"

I am sure I believe some things that may not be correct. I am always trying to gather more information to help me have a better understanding of important complicated issues.

Below is information regarding my previous post.

You seem to be unaware of this bit of history.

King David Hotel bombing
(Redirected from Bombing of King David Hotel)

On July 26, 1946, members of the Jewish terrorist organization Irgun Tsvai-Leumi in the British Mandate of Palestine planted and exploded a bomb at the King David Hotel. The hotel was the base for the British military command and the British Criminal Investigation Division. 91 people were killed: 28 British, 41 Arab, 17 Jewish, and 5 other. Around 45 people were injured.

The attack was ordered by David Ben Gurion and directed by Menachem Begin, both of whom would later become Israeli Prime Ministers. The attack was conducted by the Irgun Tsvai-Leumi, an Israeli terrorist organisation. It was commanded by Yosef Avni and Yisrael Levi.

The attack on the hotel was the largest terrorist attack against the British in the history of the Mandate. Some claim this terrorist act should be considered in light of the escalating violence in the region, and the continuing conflict between the three main forces in the region: British, Israeli, and Palestinian. In particular, the attack was made in retalitation for the British Operation Agatha.


The Attack
Moshe Sneh, the chief of the Haganah General Headquarters, sent a letter to Menachem Begin, the leader of the Irgun, with instructions. Text in (bracketed italics) has been inserted to clarify some of the references. The original letter can be found in the Jabotinsky Institute Archives (k-4 1/11/5).


At the earliest possible opportunity, you are to carry out the operation at the "chick" (code for the King David Hotel) and at the house of "your servant and messiah" (code for the David Brothers building). Inform me of the date. Preferably at the same time. Do not reveal the identity of the implementing body - either by announcing it explicitly or by hinting.
We too are preparing something - will inform you of details in good time.
Exclude TA (Tel Aviv) from any plan of action. We are all interested in preserving TA - as the center of Yishuv life and the center of our own activities. If, as the result of any action, TA is immobilized (ie, curfew, arrests), this will paralyse us and our plans as well. And the important objects of the other side are not focused here. Hence, TA is 'out of bounds' for the forces of Israel. 1.7.46. M. (Moshe Sneh)."
The commander of the attack Yisrael Levi (Gidon) (1926-1990) ordered that the following message be delivered immediately to the operator of the King David Hotel; "I am speaking on behalf of the Hebrew underground. We have placed an explosive device in the hotel. Evacuate it at once - you have been warned." This message was also given to the French consulate, which was next door, in order to prevent loss of life there was well.

Note: some people have contested whether these messages were actually delivered.


Responses to the attack
The British House of Commons responded:


"On July 22, 1946, one of the most dastardly and cowardly crimes in recorded history took place. We refer to the blowing up of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem. Ninety-two persons lost their lives in that stealthy attack, 45 were injured, among whom there were many high officials, junior officers and office personnel, both men and women. The King David Hotel was used as an office housing the Secretariat of the Palestine Government and British Army Headquarters. The attack was made on 22 July at about 12 o?clock noon when offices are usually in full swing. The attackers, disguised as milkmen, carried the explosives in milk containers, placed them in the basement of the Hotel and ran away.
The Chief Secretary for the Government of Palestine, Sir John Shaw, declared in a broadcast:


"As head of the Secretariat, the majority of the dead and wounded were my own staff, many of whom I have known personally for eleven years. They are more than official colleagues. British, Arabs, Jews, Greeks, Armenians; senior officers, police, my orderly, my chauffeur, messengers, guards, men and women-- young and old-- they were my friends."
The Jewish leadership publicly condemned these attacks. The Jewish agency expressed "their feelings of horror at the base and unparalleled act perpetrated today by a gang of criminals". In fact, the Irgun were acting in response to direct instructions from the United Resistance, as described in the letter from Moshe Sneh cited above.

The Irgun issued an initial statement accepting responsibility for the attack, blaming the British for the deaths due to failure to respond to the warning, and mourning the Jewish victims. A year later, on July 22, 1947, they issued a new statement saying that they were acting on instructions from "a letter from the headquarters of the United Resistance, demanding that we carry out an attack on the center of government at the King David Hotel as soon as possible".

The British army commander in Palestine, General Sir Evelyn Barker, ordered that Jewish property was "out of bounds for all British officers and soldiers". He stated that: "The aim of these orders are to punish the Jews in a way the race dislikes as much as any, namely by striking at their pockets". The order was rescinded two weeks later.

However while for years British claimed it wasn't been warned. A member of Parliment on 1979 introduced evidence that the Irgun had issued a warning. The testimony of a British officer who overheard other British officers in a bar poking fun about a Jewish threat to the hotel. The officer left the hotel immediately and survived.

link here

The Bombing of the King David Hotel
On the morning of the 22nd of July 1946 a party of between 15 and 20 Jews, dressed as an Arabs entered the King David Hotel. The hotel housed the Secretariat of the Government of Palestine and Headquarters of the British Forces in Palestine and Transjordan. The terrorists were able to enter the building without arousing too much attention because part of the building was still being used as a hotel and other people frequented it. The Jews pretended to be an Arab working party. Having unloading from their lorry several milk churns filled with 225 kilogram's of explosive, they placed them in the basement of the wing of the hotel occupied by the Secretariat.
A British officer standing nearby, one Major Mackintosh, became suspicious of this group of Arabs and began to ask questions, but was suddenly gunned down by a member of the Jewish gang and subsequently died. A policeman stationed at the tradesman's entrance suffered a similar fate when he challenged the Jewish terrorists. Both victims were unarmed. A gun battle soon began between the terrorist and guards during which time the Jews ignited the fuse and bolted from the building as the alarm was given. As they ran several were shot and wounded by guards, but most managed to make good their escape. There was no time to evacuate the building and the charge exploded with devastating effect. Many were killed instantly as the whole wing of the building collapsed about them, others were trapped and many more injured.


Rescue work started straight way as soldiers and police began to pull away the rubble in the hope of finding survivors. Members of the Royal Engineers were hurried to the scene with heavy lifting equipment, but they had difficulty reaching the King David Hotel because of Jewish road blocks. The Royal Engineers were stoned and booed as they tried to make their way to the scene of the bombing.

By 1600 hours the sappers were hard at work in the rubble. The task was a race against time, and not until all hope of saving further lives had been abandoned days later, did they relax their efforts. Day and night the rescue operations went on with sappers working like men possessed, for deep in the wreckage could occasionally be heard sounds which urged them on with fresh hope.

At 22:00 hours of that night the sappers were formed into three shifts, and for the next 3 days each shift worked 16 hours on and eight hours off. Even so, some men refused to rest until completely exhausted. It is recorded that one sapper drove his bulldozer for 30 hours with out leaving the wheel until he eventually collapsed exhausted. From the wreckage and rubble the rescuers managed to extract six survivors, The last to be found was D. C. Thompson, 24 hours after the building had collapsed. He appeared to be more or less unhurt. But died the next day due to shock.

Owing to the danger of falling masonry and further subsidence the use of mechanical equipment had to be very limited, until it was considered that no one remained alive beneath the debris. Soon all hope of finding anyone alive faded and the operation to recover the bodies began. 91 bodies were recovered in the following week and 2000 lorry loads of rubble had been removed. The stench which accompanied the work which was carried out in the sweltering heat of midsummer was most unpleasant.

Not all the 91 one people killed were members of the British Security Forces. There were 15 Jews among the dead, including women who had been working as secretaries in the building. The Irgun claimed that the British had been warned about the attack by telephone, but the warning was ignored.

link here

 

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You can catch Bin Laden, shut down Al Qaeda, but there are still millions and millions who support them, and it will only be a matter of time before someone steps up.

It's like there are millions and millions of people out there who are in need of 'something' and these dodgy salesman are convincing them of what they need, who is to blame for them not having it, and how to get it. You can kill the salesmen (and thats ok), but others can take their place. What you really need to do is take away the need for what they are selling. I don't think there's much of that going on, and thats the problem.

Good point. It's not that Osama bin Laden is giving out the orders; someone is there ready with the bombs ready to die themselves. As long as these lower-level guys are out there we're stuck with it.