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Old 12-09-2003, 05:13 PM   #16
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I don't understand why Gore owes anything to Lieberman. If he feels Dean is the best chance to win, then what's the problem here? Gore/Lieberman never struck me as friends anyway, more like strategic partners.

Is Dick Cheney still alive? Seriously.
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Old 12-09-2003, 05:24 PM   #17
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I was just watching "Inside Politics" on CNN while I was doing my laundry. They were interviewing someone from the Lieberman campaign. They are *mad* as hell at the endorsement. I didn't see the whole interview. Although I'm not a Lieberman supporter, the guy's way too conservative for me, I did think the Senator tried to be loyal to Gore by not deciding on his candidacy until he was sure Gore was not going to run. Shouldn't have Gore just let the votes be cast? Maybe it's because I'm from a part of the country where Lieberman has some support because we Southerners tend to be conservative (even though I'm a liberal myself). This could be a screw-up. I can just hear the conversations over at the local Jewish community center. If you're a Democrat anywhere you *do* not want to screw up with the Jewish vote. That's crucial anywhere. For many of them Lieberman's their man.
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Old 12-09-2003, 05:34 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
I don't understand why Gore owes anything to Lieberman. If he feels Dean is the best chance to win, then what's the problem here? Gore/Lieberman never struck me as friends anyway, more like strategic partners.

Is Dick Cheney still alive? Seriously.
The fact is Lieberman did not announce his candidacy when he wanted to because he did not know if Gore wanted to run. he waited, and waited and waited, for Gore to make up his mind. It was out of respect for Mr. Gore.

The other issue is, according to Mr. Lieberman, Mr. Dean does not stand for the same issues as the Gore/Lieberman ticket did four years ago. It is hard for him to understand how and why Gore would endorse someone who stands for something completely different.

Dick Cheney will emerge when the WMD announcement is made right about the month before the Democratic Convention.
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Old 12-09-2003, 06:17 PM   #19
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melon,

When I first heard a while back that Dean was against the war, I knew that he would be the easier candidate to beat since most people supported the war. Kerry or Lieberman would have a better chance because they supported the war and therefor take away the Presidents #1 issue. Because they have a more liberal domestic agenda, but supported the war, they are potentially closer to the center than Bush. Its all about casting the other side as the conservative or the Liberal while your the reasonable moderate that everyone can relate to. The Democrats best strategy is to nominate a moderate candidate, not someone that is considered a liberal. Deans stand on the war puts him in the liberal camp.
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Old 12-09-2003, 06:41 PM   #20
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BonoVoxSupastar,

"The majority of Congress may have voted that way, but I feel many did so not because they honestly believed in the war. Many who voted for have spoken against Bush's actions since then. Congress was asleep at the wheel and Bush took advantage of the state of America at that point."

Everyone of these congressman new long before 9/11 that the most serious act they would vote on as Congressman would be whether or not to take the country to war. They all studied the situation and voted based on the conclusions each of them arrived at and what they thought the best course of action for the country to take at that time was.

Its true some on the left have spoken out against Bush since then, but that does not change their voting record on this.

"I love how you are the only one I know that has a crystal ball and for certain can predict that Saddam would still be in power now if Dean had been president. You're the only one that knows for certain that he wouldn't have been able to convince the UN or had found a way to take Saddam out of power and still known where he is. I think with more and more reports that this war was not a neccesity and that WMDs have not been found, I think your predictions may not be as sound as you believe."

Hey, I'm just going by what Dean himself has said. Dean would not have gone to war to bring about compliance with the resolutions. He has said this. But Nothing short of a large scale military invasion would be able to remove Saddam from power. Any study of Saddam's personal security arrangments in addition to his 400,000 man military will show this.

Multiple attempts were made to bring about compliance and or remove Saddam that did not involve a full scale military invasion, over the past 12 years and they all failed. The only way to remove Saddam was through a full scale military invasion and Howard Dean was unwilling to do that.

There is no crystal ball, only the action necessary to remove Saddam, and Deans disapproval of such action. At no time has Dean ever articulated a military strategy or any option for removing Saddam. Instead he has only been outspoken in his criticism's of such action.
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Old 12-09-2003, 07:35 PM   #21
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In light of the millions who found the results of 2000 a crushing disappointment (if not disgraceful sham), Gore went with the guy who has the best chance of getting the nomination. A no-brainer.
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Old 12-09-2003, 07:43 PM   #22
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This is left, right?
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Old 12-09-2003, 09:49 PM   #23
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http://webcenter.polls.aol.com/modul...news2&_nc=news
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Old 12-09-2003, 10:25 PM   #24
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Who would you vote for if the presidential election were today?
President Bush 56%
Howard Dean 36%
I need another option 8%
What impact will Gore's backing have on Dean?
Positive 41%
No impact 37%
Negative 22%
Do endorsements influence your vote?
No, I decide on my own 64%
Sometimes, it depends on who's doing the endorsing 32%
Yes, I pay close attention to them 4%
Total Votes: 586, 887
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Old 12-09-2003, 10:31 PM   #25
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Old 12-09-2003, 10:55 PM   #26
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Based on that poll, Dean has a lot of work to do if he does not want 2004 to become 1984 in terms of the election results for the Democrats.
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Old 12-10-2003, 12:15 AM   #27
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"NOTE: Poll results are not scientific and reflect the opinions of only those users who chose to participate. Poll results are not reflected in real time."

Internet users are typically more disproportionately affluent, compared to the rest of the United States, not to mention that I have a feeling that if I deleted my cookie, I could vote on that poll again.

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Old 12-10-2003, 12:34 AM   #28
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sour grapes
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Old 12-10-2003, 10:31 AM   #29
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diamond, I never pay attention to Internet polls. They don't have the social-scientific analytical work in them that others polls do. For "scientific" polls they collect demographic data on the people they ask the questions to so it will be representational of the people as a whole. They can't do that on an Internet poll, when people just go in there, don't give demographic data, and vote. These are people who can afford PC's, ISP's, and happen to be signed up on a particular ISP, AOL. Hell, they don't even ask which party you voted for in the last elections. There are polls with the necessary information out there, it's just that no Internet poll is going to be accurate. Yes, I'd say that if they had a Democrat in the lead.
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Old 12-10-2003, 10:44 AM   #30
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Verte-

Wasnt it Dean's claim to fame that a lot of his supporters are computer hacks and geeks?

Oh I guess Dean's camp would be above using AOL though

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