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Old 01-11-2005, 03:57 PM   #16
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Originally posted by strannix


Did you even read your link? He's not actually accusing Franken of being racist. He's simply protesting Franken's label of him as racist.
I did. Did you read what I said ? I said "some say he's a racist.....", the rest was for you to find out why, I'm glad you read the link. There's a difference between omission and error.
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Old 01-11-2005, 10:42 PM   #17
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
They've both [Limbaugh and Franken] been labeled racist.
They both put ethnicity as an issue, even when it isn't necessary. For example, Franken refers to Sean Hannity as an "angry, Irish ape-man." Also, Franken questioned whether Bill O'Reilly suffered from a "touch of the Irish flu." Substitute "Mexican" or "black", and the point is clear. Limbaugh is a bit of a nut too. It depends how racist you consider his race-oriented comments on Donovan McNabb, but you would expect it to cause a stir. McNabb spoke his mind about the comment, but he was very reasonable in doing it.

"It's somewhat shocking to hear that on national TV from him," McNabb said. "It's not something that I can sit here and say won't bother me."

Maybe he forgot to take his painkillers that day.
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Old 01-12-2005, 05:34 AM   #18
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I 've never thought Franken was very funny and that has nothing to do with his politics. Anytime I saw him on SNL I rarely even chuckled. If he is a satirist, he is an awful one. He should read "A Modest Proposal" to learn how to properly do satire.
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Old 01-12-2005, 06:43 AM   #19
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I've read Franken's "Lies and the Liars Who Tell Them", and I think it's funny. Your mileage may vary.
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Old 01-12-2005, 08:27 AM   #20
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gah i love that book! i literalliy laughed out loud when i read it.
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Old 01-12-2005, 09:28 AM   #21
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My main problem with Franken's style is that whenever his credibility is questioned, he claims "satire" on any charge against him. I think you have to be pretty darn liberal to get a kick out of most of his work.
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Old 01-12-2005, 01:23 PM   #22
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Well then call me pretty darn liberal.
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Old 01-12-2005, 01:49 PM   #23
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
My main problem with Franken's style is that whenever his credibility is questioned, he claims "satire" on any charge against him.
Can you provide an example of this? I haven't noticed this, except when people take something seriously that was meant as a joke - in which case, "satire" is a proper claim.
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Old 01-12-2005, 09:51 PM   #24
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I'd sure like an explanation for this one.

----------------------------------------------------------

In pages 283-287 of Lies, Franken tells of how he wrote a letter to 27 right-wing and conservative figures. The letter, written in April 2003 on Harvard University stationery, claimed he was writing a book on sex abstinence called Savin' It! (not true). Under this pretense, Franken petitioned the 27 people to share his or her own story of abstinence. The author claimed he had already "received wonderful testimonies" from HHS Secretary Tommy Thompson (a lie), William J. Bennett (another lie), White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer (yup, another lie), Cardinal Egan (are you counting the lies?), Senator Rick Santorum (lie), and National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice (lie).

The second half of the letter was a hard sell to elicit replies. "I have found that kids respond best to total honesty ... Be serious! ... Kids can sense a phony a mile away."

One of the letters he sent, addressed to Attorney General John Ashcroft, was reprinted in his book on pages 285-286.

In the weeks following the release of his book, a couple of interviewers, rightfully so, took issue with the fact that Franken had authored a book entitled Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them, yet he had sent out an entirely phony letter. CNN’s Paula Zahn was one reporter who called him on it. She interviewed Franken on her show Paula Zahn Now on August 25, 2003. Read this. It’s fun!

Zahn: You wrote a letter to Attorney General Ashcroft, 27 others. [author’s note: the total number of letters was actually 27.]

Franken: Right.

Zahn: You said you were writing a book on abstinence and you wanted to use them as role models. You sent it on Harvard University stationery.

Franken: Well, yes.

Zahn: Wasn’t that all a lie?

Franken: It was a joke. I was talking about – OK – here is what it was. It was –

Zahn: Wait, it may have been a joke, too, but would you concede that that was a lie?

Franken: Yes, but it was about – here is what it was. It was saying, "Dear Attorney General Ashcroft, I’m at Harvard writing a book called – on abstinence-only education called Savin’ It. And don’t you think it is time that kids had abstinence heroes? And I would like your abstinence story."

Zahn: So the folks who are saying out there, what credibility does Al Franken have when it comes to the issue of lying. He just got caught with his finger in the cookie jar.

Franken: I think if you look at it in the context of the book, it was – I’m a satirist. And it was satirical. And I think that if you read the letter, you saw what the purpose of the letter was, which is, that these people who push – abstinence-only sex ed doesn’t work. It –

Zahn: Of course, you have seen people come out from various organizations say that you’re absolutely wrong on that one, but we don’t have enough time to have a debate on that.2

Woops. Look at Franken’s last remarks. In the span of about 5 seconds, the letters went from being a "joke" and "satirical" to something totally different, an effort to exclaim "abstinence-only sex ed doesn’t work." You'd think the guy would want to get his stories straight before he hits the press tour!

Well, which is it, Al? Were the letters obviously a prank? Or were the letters a clear indication that its recipients are hypocrites?

By the way, Franken writes on page 354 of Lies, "[L]ying is when you deliberately deceive." He’s right about that!

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Old 01-12-2005, 10:19 PM   #25
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Parents lie to their kids to get them to do certain things. They lie to their kids about the tooth fairy to get them to not fear loosing their teeth, they lie to them about Santa Claus to get them into the spirit of Christmas and to go to bed early enough so they can put out presents.

Abstinence only programs lie to children to get them to fear sex until marriage, they don't tell the whole truth. They lie to them by not giving the whole truth about sex, protection, and the responsibilites of sex.

Franken lies to get the whole truth. Maybe it's a dirty trick in order to get the whole truth, but people do it everyday. Your government does it, your teachers do it, your parents do it, even your friends do it. The motive was to prove a point, I'm not saying it's 100% right but it's done everyday.
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Old 01-12-2005, 10:22 PM   #26
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Defending lies... at least you acknowledge that they were in fact lies. Anyone else who would like to comment?
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Old 01-12-2005, 10:34 PM   #27
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I also said he was an entertainer. Entertainers lie to get reactions, even you claim to do the same in a recent posts. Even Bono does it. No difference.
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Old 01-12-2005, 10:40 PM   #28
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defending the indefensible... a great liberal art
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Old 01-12-2005, 10:58 PM   #29
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Franken has made many serious points about serious matters, and his facts and stories are not always true. I research the guy to see if he has any credibility, and he's a tad off-key. From time to time, I may joke around, and I may exaggerate, but I don't make serious charges jokingly. Al Franken is not exclusively an entertainer, he discusses serious matters, and doesn't joke around on every issue he discusses.

“What Al Franken had in mind was a serious book. It has a skin of humor, but it is a thoroughly researched book.” - New York Times reporter and Pulitzer Prize winner Alex Jones, on Al Franken
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Old 01-12-2005, 11:01 PM   #30
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defending the indefensible... a great liberal art
Great argument.
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