Ajatollah Mohammed Bakr el Hakim returned to Iraq - U2 Feedback

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Old 05-10-2003, 03:41 PM   #1
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Ajatollah Mohammed Bakr el Hakim returned to Iraq

Ajatollah Mohammed Bakr el Hakim, the head of the SCIRI (Biggest Shiitic organization of Iraq). returned from his exile after 23 Years to Iraq.
He's verry strictly against US presence in Iraq.

He was welcomed at the Schalamdschah (border)from 2000 supporters, on the way to Basra his supporters were throwing flowers at the street, later approx. 10.000 people were chering at him in Basra.

People didn't forget that he was fighting against Saddam for a long time and lost 5 of his brothers though Saddam Hussein, he was also thrown to jail several times.

Some were drawing parralells to Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeinis return from his 14-year exile.

This is not only what some "liberals" here were affraid of before the war - also some US militars like Gen. Clark were affraid of this possible upcoming of Shiitic fundamentalism after it has been fought down by saddam for approx. 20 years.
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Old 05-10-2003, 07:40 PM   #2
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There are probably too many Sunni Moslems in Iraq for this guy to be super-powerful all over the country. It seems like he's got quite a following in the southern part of the country.
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Old 05-11-2003, 07:55 AM   #3
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Re: Ajatollah Mohammed Bakr el Hakim returned to Iraq

Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus
This is not only what some "liberals" here were affraid of before the war - also some US militars like Gen. Clark were affraid of this possible upcoming of Shiitic fundamentalism after it has been fought down by saddam for approx. 20 years.
I think it'll be interesting to see how the occupying forces respond to this. If the Iraqi people have the opportunity to elect a government and choose a government largely dominated by fundamentalists, will the West be happy to allow this in the name of democracy, or will they try to prevent it as it might prove to be anti-Western.
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Old 05-11-2003, 12:05 PM   #4
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Some Iraqis don't want a fundamentalist government either. The women's activists sure don't. Some of these are Shi'ites. Women make up 55% of the Iraqi population. I don't want to tell any of these people who to vote for or whatever, but this is what makes me nervous about a fundamentalist government--they'll treat women the way they are treated in Saudi Arabia.
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Old 05-11-2003, 12:08 PM   #5
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I agree with you, verte, and I certainly have no admiration for fundamentalist governments. However, I just wonder what the response of the West would be if Iraq did choose such a government. At the end of the day though, I agree with what you said - we can't tell people in Iraq who to vote for - the makeup of their government has to be their own decision.
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Old 05-11-2003, 08:22 PM   #6
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this person (Ajatollah Mohammed Bakr el Hakim) could be a dangerous person - at afik another shiitic leader (the only one who was almost as popular as him) died because of twentysomething stabs with a knife
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Old 05-14-2003, 11:43 AM   #7
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Damn. I hate assassinations.
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Old 06-09-2003, 03:46 PM   #8
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AS A SHIA MUSLIM, I am dissapointed by all the coments i have heard from everyone in the news, radio, and my peers, saying that Shia muslims are extremeists...

WHY?

CAN SOMEONE TELL ME WHY THEY ARE CONSIDERED FUNDEMANTALISTS?

Also, Ayotallah Hakim is against Americans running affairs in Iraq, but he is not against Americans and democracy... He beleives that Iraq should be a Muslim state, but he believes that their are differing oppinions, thus their should be democracy...
KLaus, where did you hear that he would opress the women? In Iran, women are not being totally supressed... Listen, one thing we must be prepared for is a little prejiduce between the people, it is sadly part of teh development process... The US had experienced this for a long time...

If anyone has ever heard this man, he is a very soft spoken and polite gentalman who is willing to talk... He may have many faults, but which leader doesn't have faults...

Iraq is 60 per cent Shia... So, if the majority of people were to elect Hakim, which may not be the case... Then, it is a fair election.. The beginning of a new Iraq will have many examples of prejiduces here and their... But every country has faced that, it is sadly part of the process of developing...
If Iraq becomes another Iran, good for them... In my oppinion Iran is a developing democracy which has been a victim of Western abuse... The people of the country wanted to have Iran run by a certain leader of Shia faith, but this leader, though i have my negatives about him, had brought a revolution for the people.. All revolutions have sadly been bloody.... The majority of peopel in Iran loved Khomeni, and I have to say he brought a lot of good and developemnt in Iran... Today, Iran has a high education rate... 90 PERCENT OF WOMEN IN IRAQ ARE LITERATE, MANY HAVE STANCES IN THE GOVERNMENT AND POLITICS, MANY OF THEM HAVE VOICES.. AS FOR THE PEOPLE, FREEDOM OF SPEECH IS BECOMING MORE AND MORE TOLERATED... THUS, THE OFTEN SEEN PUBLIC PROTESTS WRITEN AND PERFORMED...
My point is, The only reason why the West would see Hakim as a threat would be because they might develop into a strong developed Muslim country... which would have more control over the oil, thus they would become materially, a very strong power...
My dad met Hakim, and my dad is a very liberal person... And he considered Hakim as a very practical man...

Before you all start to freak out about this man, try and do a little more research on him...

Sadly, America has failed to research Iraq, and the people's intersts, and the many other different aspects of Iraq....

Hakim along with many other people wanted America's support in overthrowing Saddam... The US had turned their backs on these people, and had them killed.. (majority of killed were shia muslims). Why kill the people who were pleading for America's help in the fight against Saddam?

I'm sorry, but the US has to do their homework on Iraq, and the people's interest before they make any drastic assumptions...
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Old 06-09-2003, 04:01 PM   #9
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O, by the way, Saudi is run by Wahabbi(s), their cultural beliefs neglect the way of giving women certain rights...

A Shia leader and a Wahabbi leader would most likely have different morals and beliefs... Most Shia clerics that I know of believe highly in the increase of Women rights...
IN fact the Shia sect of Islam holds Bibi Fatima as a sacred Women who was very outspoken and strong... They say, when people would hear her public speaches, people would think that the Prophet would be speaking... Shia's, for the most part,place women in a very high stance.
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Old 06-09-2003, 05:30 PM   #10
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Amna--You're right about Shia Moslems. People have been told that Osama and company are Shia, therefore some people have grouped Shia Moslems into fundamentalist Islamic tendencies. But this isn't accurate, let alone fair. I have a print-out from a Turkish web site about Islam in Turkey. About a third of the people in Turkey belong to a *liberal* Shia group, the Alevis. Men and women are both very active in these communities. They can drink alcohol if they like and the women sure as heck don't have to wear veils or anything else they don't want to wear. Quite clearly there is a diversity within the Shia community.
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Old 06-09-2003, 08:45 PM   #11
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Amna:
where did i say that they opress women? I can ask my dad next weekend as he was in Iran and i can ask him about his impressions.

What i said above was that a concurent leader was assassined - and this brings up fears that this guy or his supporters might be extremists.

Klaus
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Old 06-09-2003, 09:00 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus
Amna:
where did i say that they opress women? I can ask my dad next weekend as he was in Iran and i can ask him about his impressions.

What i said above was that a concurent leader was assassined - and this brings up fears that this guy or his supporters might be extremists.

Klaus
I don't think you did, Klaus. I think one of my posts is fd up with an ignorant stupid reference to Shia Moslems. No excuses.
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Old 06-09-2003, 09:12 PM   #13
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verte76: to err is human

well she referenced me and so i was unsure (since my posts are a few weeks old) if i did thit on another thread.

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Old 06-09-2003, 11:19 PM   #14
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I AM SOOO SORRY KLAUS, I'VE BEEN EXTREMELY TIRED LATELY AND I MIXED UP YOUR RESPONSE WITH VERTE... SORRRY...

anyways, thats cool your dad went to Iran... What was he doing there, just out of curiosity?

The ratios about 90 percent of women are educated, had come from a prof. from an IRani University, and the other source was some famous Irani archeologist; both women came to Simmons College for a discussion on women in Iran...
-so, thats my source; along with many of my Irani friends in the community-
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Old 06-10-2003, 11:51 AM   #15
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Amna, I read an Iranian news web site. It's a really good site. There are all sorts of views, both political and religious, on the site. Sorry about the stupid post. I do think that the Western press misrepresents Shia Moslems all the time. It's annoying.
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