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Old 12-07-2005, 08:39 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Thank goodness someone is apparently doing their jobs.
Indeed. It shows that the air marshal system is working.

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Old 12-07-2005, 08:40 PM   #17
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With a bomber a wound doesn't stop them from blowing up a lot of people. If the decision is made then they should follow through completely even if it means blowing the skull of the potential bomber to bits.
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Old 12-07-2005, 08:54 PM   #18
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From what I understand in that type of situation the marshals would shoot to stop the person, and that generally means a shot to the body as opposed to an extremity. Unfortunately, since most of ones important stuff is in one's torso, chances are good the shot/shots will be fatal.

If he indeed did have a bomb, they wouldn't get a second chance, so they had to go for the complete stop.
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Old 12-07-2005, 09:00 PM   #19
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I'm sure this wasn't a moment where there was a lot of time to think about where to shoot. When someone claims to have a bomb and reach to explode it, I'm sure they're not concerned over whether he's someone who hasn't taken his medication.

I'm sorry. He made the decision not to take his medication, and it was a fatal mistake. Maybe next time, crazy people should think of more harmless ways to rant and rave.

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Old 12-07-2005, 09:13 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
With a bomber a wound doesn't stop them from blowing up a lot of people. If the decision is made then they should follow through completely even if it means blowing the skull of the potential bomber to bits.
Just to play devil's advocate, a kill would be deadly if it was a release trigger.
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Old 12-07-2005, 09:16 PM   #21
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And I think that in that case the odds are even, once wounded they would want to release ASAP so that they could kill as many as possible. If uncertain a kill has slightly better odds.
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Old 12-07-2005, 09:45 PM   #22
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
If uncertain a kill has slightly better odds.
That is exactly why an all or nothing policy bothers me.

"Slightly better odds" doesn't help me sleep at night.

Come on people haven't you seen 'Speed'.
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Old 12-07-2005, 09:47 PM   #23
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If the decision is made it has to be carried out completely, no half way. The goal is to incapacitate, if you can come up with a more effective means than using lethal force I would sure like to hear it.
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Old 12-07-2005, 09:50 PM   #24
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If uncertain a kill has slightly better odds
So I am not misquoted this is in regards to shooting to kill versus shooting to wound, in both trigger and release cases a wound does not eliminate the threat. In the case of trigger a lethal shot will eliminate it, in the case of release then it will trigger it.
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Old 12-07-2005, 09:54 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
I'm sure this wasn't a moment where there was a lot of time to think about where to shoot. When someone claims to have a bomb and reach to explode it, I'm sure they're not concerned over whether he's someone who hasn't taken his medication.

I'm sorry. He made the decision not to take his medication, and it was a fatal mistake. Maybe next time, crazy people should think of more harmless ways to rant and rave.

Melon
I agree. It is a sad situation all around. The Marshalls did what they were trained to do and thankfully there is not a history of US Air Marshalls being trigger happy.
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Old 12-07-2005, 09:56 PM   #26
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Does this change your mind on a shoot to kill policy?
I went into an alley in Boston one night after I saw a woman get grabbed and dragged into the alley. I am lucky to be alive it was a stupid thing to do. Some might say heroic, but when all is said and done, I reacted to the situation instead of thinking about the safe play for myself.

It does not change my thoughts about the shoot to kill policy. But, I think that if I had pulled the trigger to find out the man had no bomb, I would have difficulty dealing with it.

It is why I left law enforcement.
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Old 12-07-2005, 10:03 PM   #27
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He meant that he was carrying U2's How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb in his bag
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Old 12-07-2005, 10:13 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


I went into an alley in Boston one night after I saw a woman get grabbed and dragged into the alley. I am lucky to be alive it was a stupid thing to do. Some might say heroic, but when all is said and done, I reacted to the situation instead of thinking about the safe play for myself.

I'm a little confused as to what this has to do with the situation. I mean I would have done the same thing.

1. You saw a definate crime.

2. Was there a shoot to kill scenario?






I guess what I'm trying to get at is a wound vs. a kill shot. Is there any room for a decision, or must it be an all or nothing policy in a case like this?

I mean there's a couple of things here:

a. He's already gone through at least one checkpoint.

b. This guy is not in an "ideal" bombing area, he's getting off a plane on a tarmac, probably one the least dangerous places to bomb.

c. (which I know this shouldn't count for much) but you have a wife yelling out that he's sick and not on his meds.


What are we to do when there is a communication break down due to mental illness or language barrier?
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Old 12-07-2005, 10:14 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
So I am not misquoted this is in regards to shooting to kill versus shooting to wound, in both trigger and release cases a wound does not eliminate the threat. In the case of trigger a lethal shot will eliminate it, in the case of release then it will trigger it.
I understand now.
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Old 12-07-2005, 10:15 PM   #30
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If he was off his lithium, it's just a sad conclusion to what was most likely a sad life. Bipolar disease is merciless.

It must be a tough thing to be the air marshal as well. On an intellectual level he probably understands he was doing his job, but it still has to be difficult to stand over a dead body.
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