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Old 06-25-2003, 10:09 AM   #31
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The government isn't only asking for recognition for its donations: it is asking that it is allowed to dictate the policy of organisations to which it donates. We're talking about NON governmental organisations - their policies should not be dictated by any government, no matter which country that government represents. Why is it so hard to imagine a government offering money simply for the sake of HELPING people, rather than for the sake of gaining some kind of benefit in return?
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Old 06-25-2003, 10:13 AM   #32
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I will take back what I said about the Iraq situation here. I think it has much, much more to do with setting up a free market economy. From this article here:

USAID director Andrew Natsios told a hearing earlier this month that creating a market economy is one of the key goals of the US-led reconstruction effort

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...449284816.html

And the end of the original article that sparked this discussion:

One paper at the seminar accused NGOs of obstructing prosperity and good health in Africa, another of promoting "anti-capitalist" themes through their criticism of some corporate activities.

This to me, and the fact that some of the NGO's renegotiated the language and others are not fazed by this situation according to the article would lead me to believe that there are specific NGO's that are troublesome and not all of them.
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Old 06-25-2003, 10:21 AM   #33
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And the most disturbing statement to me was the one that chided NGOs for not realizing that they are "an arm of the U.S. government."

Whether or not that paper can back up its claims that NGOs are obstructing health and prosperity in Africa has not been shown. It's equally likely that they don't go along with the pro-corporate, "free trade" ideology that is practically religion in the current US govt. I would hope that they would have the right to disagree if they saw fit. There is enough evidence that corporations trample on the rights of 3rd world countries and citizens to make me suspicious of the silencing of dissenting voices. But that's probably a topic for a whole new thread. lol.
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Old 06-25-2003, 10:27 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by sulawesigirl4
And the most disturbing statement to me was the one that chided NGOs for not realizing that they are "an arm of the U.S. government."
I have serious doubts about if this statement is accurate. AS you are questioning the ability of the paper to back up its claims below.

Quote:
Originally posted by sulawesigirl4
Whether or not that paper can back up its claims that NGOs are obstructing health and prosperity in Africa has not been shown. It's equally likely that they don't go along with the pro-corporate, "free trade" ideology that is practically religion in the current US govt. I would hope that they would have the right to disagree if they saw fit.
Sure they have a right to disagree. And the US Government has the right to disagree and give its money to an NGO that will work with it. AS the article says, some of the NGO's are not worried about it, others negotiated language that was more to their liking. This to me along with the fact that Iraq is the number one issue on USAID's list right now, lead me to believe they are trying to make sure they have organizations that are working with them, not against them as they attempt to get the Iraqi economy going.
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Old 06-25-2003, 10:38 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


If you saw a person who had been involved in an accident, you wouldn't HAVE to call for an ambulance but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do so.
I don't really have anything to add to this post. But I just thought I'd nitpick a little.

Here in my great state of Texas, you are in fact legally mandated to stop and render aid if you are the first person upon an accident, which involves at the very least, calling an ambulance.

Just thought I'd drop in and clear that up. It adds absolutely nothing to the discussion; I just can't resist arguing with Fizzy!
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Old 06-25-2003, 10:52 AM   #36
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
Why is it so hard to imagine a government offering money simply for the sake of HELPING people, rather than for the sake of gaining some kind of benefit in return?
I can think of 3,000 reasons why and sum it up in 9/11. I am not asking for anything from the people who are benfitting from the $$$. I am saying that on this board in the past year, people have been saying that the US does not do enough, and that this leads to TERRORISM. In 2000 USAID spent over 50 Billion in AID.

That did not prevent 9/11 or any of the other terrorist attacks from happeneing. But one of the major arguments has been more AID. I think more AID is wrong. I think making people aware that we are involved in helping and making sure that NGO's are working with us rather than against us is important.
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Old 06-25-2003, 10:55 AM   #37
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Strongarming is not the answer tho. This administration has a terrible track record when it comes to working WITH people rather than dictating to them.

It looks like we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
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Old 06-25-2003, 11:20 AM   #38
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sula's talking crazy talk

and like that
hes
gone.
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Old 06-25-2003, 11:21 AM   #39
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I think that's a reprint of the story in the Guardian which I linked to earlier.
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Old 06-25-2003, 11:38 AM   #40
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I understand that the government wants to have a free-market economy in Iraq, which it didn't exactly have under the Stalinist Baath regime. I also understand about wanting to stop terrorism. So do I. I don't understand why the NGO's can't function in Iraq the same way they did in Afghanistan. Needless to say they're trying to stop terrorism in Afghanistan. If I remember correctly, food packets were dropped in Afghanistan by the military. In fact, I read about one family whose house got "rained on" by food packets. At first the family was freaked because they thought they were getting bombed. Then they started to find the food packets, which had a message on them that they were from the U.S. They were very happy and fed their kids! The NGO's worked independently of this. I don't want to rehash any UN arguments here except to say that the reconstruction would work better if it were international rather than strictly U.S./Britain. There was a report that Spanish troops were coming in. This might be a really positive thing. The more countries the better. Just my purple tuppence's worth.
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Old 06-25-2003, 02:18 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by sulawesigirl4
I think that's a reprint of the story in the Guardian which I linked to earlier.
Please note my comments are based on the Yahoo story not the Guardian Story. Ms. Klein is writing an editorial, not an article, and has a world view just left of Lenin in my opinion.
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Old 06-25-2003, 02:25 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
Why is it so hard to imagine a government offering money simply for the sake of HELPING people, rather than for the sake of gaining some kind of benefit in return?
I am sorry, but what are we asking for from the people we are trying to help? Nothing.

What I see is that they are asking that the organizations are working to help promote capitalism and that they in some way start making it known to the people we are helping where exactly the help is coming from.

I do not see the US asking for anything in return from the people receiving the help. AS I said, I am all in favor of helping. I almost wish the US would distribute it themselves rather than through an NGO.
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Old 06-25-2003, 02:42 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
In 2000 USAID spent over 50 Billion in AID.
$56.2 Billion in AID by USAID
$44.5 Billion in AID from Private Giving(Churches, Philanthropy, Business)

100.7 Billion Dollars in AID from the Citizens of the United States.

Yep, we are not charitable at all as a people at all.

You're right, we will agree to disagree.


http://www.usaid.gov/fani/cover.htm
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Old 06-25-2003, 02:49 PM   #44
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Dread, if you are trying to paint me into a corner as stating the US isn't giving any money, then you're mischaracterizing me. If you'd be so kind as to review the thread, the whole point has to do with the US government trying to make NGOs into an arm of the government, not with how many dollars the US has given in the last year. And if the government can't handle dissent and cannot conceive of why NGOs shy away from being puppets of contributors, then perhaps they should be more intentional about direct aid.
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Old 06-25-2003, 02:51 PM   #45
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Originally posted by sulawesigirl4
Dread, if you are trying to paint me into a corner as stating the US isn't giving any money, then you're mischaracterizing me.
And you would be mischaracterizing me with your statement as well.

PM me sometime and we can discuss if you like.
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