Ahmadinejad: Israel Will Soon Be Eliminated by One Storm

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A_Wanderer

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Hmmm, nation on the road to becoming a nuclear power starts with the threats - at least nobody can say "we never could have known", there has been a lot of advanced warning
Hamas and Islamic Jihad representatives met with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and Hizbullah members in Teheran on Friday in a conference aimed at raising funds for the Hamas-led Palestinian Authority.

Opening the conference, Ahmadinejad fired a series of verbal shots at Israel, saying it was a “permanent threat” to the Middle East that will “soon” be liberated, and questioning the validity of the Nazi Holocaust against Jews in World War II.

“Like it or not, the Zionist regime is heading toward annihiliation,” Ahmadinejad said. “The Zionist regime is a rotten, dried tree that will be eliminated by one storm,” he said.
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So the guys got a little bit of genocidal hatred of Jews, not like thats ever hurt anyone - oh wait it has. Heres some more talk without any of the sham covering
“The Zionist regime is an injustice and by its very nature a permanent threat,” firebrand President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad told the gathering of regime officials, visiting Palestinian militant leaders and foreign sympathizers.

“Whether you like it or not, the Zionist regime is on the road to being eliminated,” said Ahmadinejad, whose regime does not recognize Israel and who drew international condemnation last year when he said Israel should be “wiped off the map.” ...

“If there is serious doubt over the Holocaust, there is no doubt over the catastrophe and Holocaust being faced by the Palestinians,” said the president, who had previously dismissed as a “myth” the killing of an estimated six million Jews by the Nazis and their allies during World War II.

“I tell the governments who support Zionism to ... let the migrants (Jews) return to their countries of origin. If you think you owe them something, give them some of your land,” he said.
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It's already the future for you....so I sit here in the past at Friday, April 14, 2006 at 10:02pm. Why are times different.......because there are different time zones.
A global world...I always keep that in mind. Thanks for the links though.

:|
 
IRAN has formed battalions of suicide bombers to strike at British and American targets if the nation’s nuclear sites are attacked. According to Iranian officials, 40,000 trained suicide bombers are ready for action.

The main force, named the Special Unit of Martyr Seekers in the Revolutionary Guards, was first seen last month when members marched in a military parade, dressed in olive-green uniforms with explosive packs around their waists and detonators held high.

Dr Hassan Abbasi, head of the Centre for Doctrinal Strategic Studies in the Revolutionary Guards, said in a speech that 29 western targets had been identified: “We are ready to attack American and British sensitive points if they attack Iran’s nuclear facilities.” He added that some of them were “quite close” to the Iranian border in Iraq.

In a tape recording heard by The Sunday Times, Abbasi warned the would-be martyrs to “pay close attention to wily England” and vowed that “Britain’s demise is on our agenda”.
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Either let the country go nuclear and bunker down for megadeath or take action and unleash bloodshed all over the world - decisions. decisions. :|
 
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I remember reading that Ahmadinajad was involved in training Iranian "suicide squads" way back during the Iran-Iraq war. Unfortunately one of the enduring legacies of that war for Iran has been a battle-hardened ultranationalist attitude.
 
Yes, even among the more moderate populace the notion of pride in nuclear power is deeply ingrained, in principle I don't have a problem with the nation being a nuclear power - if it wasn't being run by theocrats.
 
More analysis
Last year, it was after another khalvat that Ahmadinejad announced his intention to stand for president. Now, he boasts that the Imam gave him the presidency for a single task: provoking a "clash of civilisations" in which the Muslim world, led by Iran, takes on the "infidel" West, led by the United States, and defeats it in a slow but prolonged contest that, in military jargon, sounds like a low intensity, asymmetrical war.

In Ahmadinejad's analysis, the rising Islamic "superpower" has decisive advantages over the infidel. Islam has four times as many young men of fighting age as the West, with its ageing populations. Hundreds of millions of Muslim "ghazis" (holy raiders) are keen to become martyrs while the infidel youths, loving life and fearing death, hate to fight. Islam also has four-fifths of the world's oil reserves, and so controls the lifeblood of the infidel. More importantly, the US, the only infidel power still capable of fighting, is hated by most other nations.

According to this analysis, spelled out in commentaries by Ahmadinejad's strategic guru, Hassan Abassi, known as the "Dr Kissinger of Islam", President George W Bush is an aberration, an exception to a rule under which all American presidents since Truman, when faced with serious setbacks abroad, have "run away". Iran's current strategy, therefore, is to wait Bush out. And that, by "divine coincidence", corresponds to the time Iran needs to develop its nuclear arsenal, thus matching the only advantage that the infidel enjoys.

Moments after Ahmadinejad announced "the atomic miracle", the head of the Iranian nuclear project, Ghulamreza Aghazadeh, unveiled plans for manufacturing 54,000 centrifuges, to enrich enough uranium for hundreds of nuclear warheads. "We are going into mass production," he boasted.

The Iranian plan is simple: playing the diplomatic game for another two years until Bush becomes a "lame-duck", unable to take military action against the mullahs, while continuing to develop nuclear weapons.
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A_Wanderer said:
Yes, even among the more moderate populace the notion of pride in nuclear power is deeply ingrained, in principle I don't have a problem with the nation being a nuclear power - if it wasn't being run by theocrats.
I agree that theocracy + nuclearization makes a nasty combo, but militant chauvinist nationalism + nuclearization wouldn't make me rest much easier, and to that extent Iranian nationalism also concerns me in and of itself. Clearly, an aggressive sense of historic entitlement to be a major player in Middle Eastern and Central Asian affairs lingers on, as well as a hostile sense of grievance over how the US/Israel/Europe have muscled in on what they see as their rightful sphere of influence. Even if by some miracle the Islamist regime were overthrown and replaced with a (likely authoritarian-leaning) "democratic" regime a year from now, I would still be very nervous about their nuclear goals. Just as I would be very nervous about the Hindu nationalists returning to power in India, even though they are not theocratic, terrorist, nor martydom-fixated per se.
 
I "get" secular authoritarian governments their actions can for the most part be boiled down to self-interest and ego. The desire of self preservation is a good check to the ammount of damage that any state is willing to inflict. But those who believe in bringing about the rapture, it is such a demented belief, I can see where they are coming from (faith, namely a belief in a time of judgement when the most righteous, them, will be saved and enjoy the rule of a messianic figure spreading their utopia across the world) and it just feels wrong, the most detestable apects of belief and ones that most certainly predate the Bush administration.

Even if relatively sane factions in the upper echelons ensure that Irans weapons are never launched west we can clearly see that the nuclear genie is out of the bottle, all the expertise and material leaked over the AQ Khan network can be bought for the right price, no doubt Iran will have similar leaks and an era of hyperproliferation may ensue, a very good time to be far removed from Eurasia.

May we see an end of the war on terror as a transition to a long term struggle against an Islamic Superpower with a degree of nuclear parity in the intermediate future? The biggest stops to that is the innovation and military ethic of the liberal democratic tradition and the technological shift away from fossil fuels (the lifeblood and leverage in international affairs).
 
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There was an opinion piece in the SF chronicle from a week ago, talking about how nuking would not be such a bad idea?? I dont think it's a smart move, unless all european nations and asian nations agreed to this.
 
I don't like the idea of nuking Iran at all. That would kill way too many innocent people. Don't forget, Iran has a fairly large opposition movement. It's not Iraq, the situation is very different as Sting2 has made some excellent posts about.
 
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I think the Pres. of Iran needs to be taken out, even if that meant a soldier doing a suicide mission. Thing's are just going to get worse with this man in power. All he needs is an alliance with North Korea, Syria, Palestine and the Iraqi insurgents.
 
Iran has been buying N-Korean missiles , has bought out Hamas (a great example of Shiite and Sunni working together), has grabbed a western frontier ally with Syria and has been sending explosives and weapons to insurgents in Southern Iraq.
 
So there you have it. Why shouldn't the europeans and Americans do something about this????????????
 
What could any European power do? Stall action in the UN for another 3 years by taking promises from the regime seriously?

Because lots of people will die if any action is taken or no action is taken is good reason to not take action, lest responsibilty fall upon them, of course one may be fairly resigned to the fact that many more people will die so ultimately we can look back at this and laugh, bitterly.
 
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I see your point. This nutcase has no scruples about wanting to kill everyone in Israel. I just wish to hell the Iranians hadn't elected him. I never thought democracy could be quite this lethal.
 
Well when you have a theocratic class barring candidates and boycotts by the populace the results can be dangerous.
 
Do you think Iran would've ended up this way if someone was the president rather than Ahmadinejad?
 
Yes. The program was in place before the War in Iraq started and Ahmadinejad only became president last year.
 
verte76 said:
I never thought democracy could be quite this lethal.

I would use the word "democracy" very loosely with respect to Iran. Unelected clerics effectively decided who would and would not be allowed to run for president. And the presidency is powerless to do anything the unelected clerical establishment does not want done.
 
i guarantee you israel is gonna blow the shit outta iran if they (iran) finish their nukes.

they did it before, and they'll do it again. they dont fuck around at all. they are surrounded by crazy, bloodthirsty arabs, and israel wont hesitate for a minute to use force when threatened.
 
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When faced with a government where theocracy is a given, no matter who is in office, Iranians will vote on other issues.

Ahmadinejad's appeal to Iranians is actually little different than Bush's appeal to Americans.

Melon
 
Ok so this guy is a little loopy, i dont see the big issue in letting them have nuclear weapons. Its not as if as soon as they finish them they're going to target the US or Israel. Not even Iran is that stupid, and the fact that people automatically assume that Iran is going to do that, we'll it pisses me off, so no wonder if pisses them off. Its like people are acting like they are nothing but a barbaric nation that are stupid and bloodythirsty enough to cause a freaking world war that they will LOSE.

I think showing them some respect and letting them have nuclear weapons would be a good thing. I mean after all a hell of a lot of other countries have them, why not Iran? And don't take about responsibility, because I think the US has show they arn't mature enough to have those kinds of weapons, but i see no one trying to sanction them.
 
The "assumption" is based on the repeated and consistent statements of intent eminating from the Iranian leadership, the idea that these people are willing to die is based on the sect of Shiism that they adhere to..

Of all the other nuclear club members how many have a declared policy of nuclear first strike?
 
really, well i didn't know that... is there somewhere i can read about it? I can't believe though that Iran would be willing (considering there is a lot of oppisition in the country already) to enter into a war which they will undoubtably lose, and probably cause more damage to their country and surrounding countries then an actual threat to the us and britain. IT just seems like they want to shoot themselves in the foot.
 
dazzlingamy said:
really, well i didn't know that... is there somewhere i can read about it? I can't believe though that Iran would be willing (considering there is a lot of oppisition in the country already) to enter into a war which they will undoubtably lose, and probably cause more damage to their country and surrounding countries then an actual threat to the us and britain. IT just seems like they want to shoot themselves in the foot.
Try these stories

Ahmadinejad: Wipe Israel off map

The quote from Rafsanjani on December 14, 2001 at Tehran University really puts it into perspective
If one day, he said, the world of Islam comes to possess the weapons currently in Israel’s possession [meaning nuclear weapons] - on that day this method of global arrogance would come to a dead end. This, he said, is because the use of a nuclear bomb in Israel will leave nothing on the ground, whereas it will only damage the world of Islam.
As well as the articles posted on page one can give you a bit of an idea where these believers (not maniacs) are coming from, it would be a mistake to think that an Islamic nuclear power is the solution to American hubris in the world. Perhaps you should also consider what may become of internal opposition to the mullahs the day that they have the nuclear umbrella - purges may be conducted without concequence.
 
The case for negotiating with Iran

By Fred Kaplan
slate.com, April 17, 2006


The Iranians' call for more nuclear talks is probably a snare, designed to knot up the West in fruitless diplomacy while they accelerate their drive to build atomic bombs. Yet President Bush should take them up on their offer—should, in fact, come to the table with a full negotiating agenda—not as an act of appeasement but as a hard-headed security calculation.

A week has passed since Seymour Hersh reported in The New Yorker that the White House is contemplating the use of nuclear bunker-busters to attack Iran's underground nuclear facilities—and the idea is looking less practical, to say the least, with each passing day. The obvious drawbacks are compelling enough (an attack would strengthen the mullahs, alienate most of the world, incite terrorist reprisals, and, for all that, merely set back Iran's nuclear program by a few years). Last Thursday, the military option was dealt another blow. Ahmadinejad let drop that his scientists are conducting research on the P-2 centrifuge, a device that can spin, and therefore enrich uranium, much faster than the conventional P-1 model. If the claim is true, it suggests that Iran has a second, secret nuclear program separate from its main nuclear facility at Natanz (which had also been secret until an exile group revealed its existence a few years ago). If we don't know of the existence, much less the location, of crucial nuclear facilities, even an otherwise well-executed campaign of air strikes will have little effect.

The one thing that Iran's leaders genuinely seem to fear is economic sanctions. They sprinted to the bargaining table, and opened more facilities to international inspectors, only after France, Britain, and Germany—which had always tolerated Iran's nuclear deceptions in order to protect their trade relations—joined in with the Bush administration's criticisms and pledged to support United Nations sanctions if Iran continued to enrich uranium.

Western Europe, Russia, and China may depend on Iran for oil, but Iran depends at least as much on them for capital investment. The United States isn't involved in either side of this equation—we've been boycotting Iranian imports and exports ever since Ayatollah Khomeini's "students" took our diplomats hostage—which is why our sudden engagement in face-to-face talks, after all these decades, would make quite an impact.

The other nations involved in this showdown—England, France, Germany, Russia, and China—would rather not impose sanctions. Their economic interests favor continued open trade with Iran. At the same time, they're deeply uncomfortable with the prospect of a nuclear-armed Iran. Economic interests, in this case, have a natural tendency to trump security interests. The former are tangible and immediate, while the latter are hypothetical and off in the future. To turn this picture around—to elevate security interests above economic interests—requires deliberate action. To do so under the pressure of George W. Bush—in the wake of his false warnings on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction and that subsequent disastrous war—also requires political courage. (One difference between the present confrontation and the lead-up to the war in Iraq is that virtually nobody disputes the finding that Iran really is seeking nuclear weapons.)

To get the other countries to unite around some sort of sanctions (or the threat of sanctions, which may be all that's necessary), President Bush not only has to threaten to penalize Iran for bad behavior but also has to reward Iran for good behavior. They will not go along with this pressure campaign—they will not undermine their economic interests—unless there are carrots as well as sticks. In other words, Bush should commence direct talks with Iran not because they offer a hopeful chance for peace and good will, but because they're a necessary prelude to an international campaign of economic pressure—and because more drastic military pressure would likely backfire. There are two likely outcomes from serious American efforts to negotiate, both good. First, if Iran cooperates with the talks, then it might suspend its nuclear program in exchange for economic benefits. Second, if Iran doesn't cooperate, then the Bush administration will have made its case to China, Russia, and Europe that the regime is dangerous and untrustworthy. At that point it will be much easier to impose the economic sanctions that will scare the Iranians into better behavior.

Another reason to hold talks: There was something a bit bizarre about the fanfare surrounding Ahmadinejad's boast of finally enriching uranium last week. "We are a nuclear country!" he proclaimed—although, even if his claim were true, he still needs tens of thousands of additional centrifuges to enrich enough uranium for a nuclear weapon. There's also this statement today from First Vice President Parviz Davoudi, reported by the Islamic Republic News Agency: "President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad," he said, "stood up to all international pressures bravely. … With such a spirit, the Iranian youth can successfully overcome all obstacles that the country will encounter."

It's reasonable speculation that Ahmadinejad's bluster has been, at least in part, for domestic consumption—to rally the increasingly alienated "Iranian youth" around long-popular nationalist sentiments. Could it be that, having secured his putative "right" to enrich uranium, the Iranian president is now prepared to make a deal—to accept controls, for the right price?
 
dazzlingamy said:
I think showing them some respect and letting them have nuclear weapons would be a good thing.

Huh? So now nuclear proliferation is a good thing? As was pointed out earlier, the leadership in Iran have made no secret of their desire to "wipe Israel off the map". And even if they do not use nuclear weapons, the threat that they may use them would likely be used to bully their neighbors. How on earth could any of this be considered a good thing?

dazzlingamy said:
I think the US has show they arn't mature enough to have those kinds of weapons, but i see no one trying to sanction them.

This seems like a cheap shot, with nothing whatsoever substantiating your position.
 
"Its like people are acting like they are nothing but a barbaric nation that are stupid and bloodythirsty enough to cause a freaking world war that they will LOSE."

If they die in war, they win! So, like said before, self preservation is not their motiver, self destruction is.

Where are all the other FYMers on this issue?
 
Well, when you consider the fact that two-thirds of the Iranian population is under 30 and 50% under 21, courting "Iranian youth" would be a good thing. I read an article recently that was conducted at a ski resort north of Tehran and it basically said that Ahmadinejad was doing a very good job scoring political capital at being anti-Bush, that Iraq was "THE" issue that was succeeding in luring otherwise sober young adults to support him. Instead of being the taker away or rights he was standing up successfully to the West. (Just another reason why the invasion helps "democracy" and was a good thing.)

There's nothing much I can say that hasn't been said already, but consider the fact that China imports 17% of its oil from Iran. Think about that. While we build Crusader's castles in Iraq (which is what I'm calling the massive, Vatican-City sized U.S. Embassy that is currently being built in the Green Zone, next to Saddam's old palace, it will be the largest US Embassy in the world when completed, I saw a pic of this in my paper 3 days ago) China is building politcal and economic alliances. China's startegy is the smart one, and willpay off in the end the most. Of course, it thinks it has the luxury of being able to stay out of the fray, but that may be changing....
 
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