Affluent Congressman Used National Guard to Visit His Property, Grab Belongings

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Dreadsox

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[Q]Sept. 13, 3005 — Amid the chaos and confusion that engulfed New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina struck, a congressman used National Guard troops to check on his property and rescue his personal belongings — even while New Orleans residents were trying to get rescued from rooftops, ABC News has learned. [/Q]


SO is it a black and white issue? Or is it a poor verses affluent issue?



abc_wnt_congress_050913_t.jpg


Here is the 8 Term Congressman that saved his own shit, while people needed rescuing.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/HurricaneKatrina/story?id=1123495&page=1
 
I think it's both.
Some are racists and so try to help white people before they help black people, others only care about who has the most money. Money is power.
And if you have enough money, your skin colour doesn't care.
 
[Q]Now some fresh pickings from the Hurricane Grapevine:

New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin (search) greeted President Bush when he arrived in Louisiana last night, and was at his side as he fielded questions on the Katrina relief efforts this morning. That quality time with the president, however, marks the mayor's first visit to the disaster area since Wednesday when Nagin pulled up stakes and moved his family to Dallas. The Dallas Morning News reports that Nagin has already bought a house in the city, and enrolled his daughter in school.

When the Mayor appeared on "Meet the Press" on Sunday from Dallas, he was never asked about his presence there, or his decision to move his family.
[/Q]

Again...more proof that this is about ECONOMICS....

orleans_ray_nagin.jpg


Hey Mayor.....Why didn't you put people on the AMTRAK train?

[Q]In fact, while the last regularly scheduled train out of town had left a few hours earlier, Amtrak had decided to run a "dead-head" train that evening to move equipment out of the city. It was headed for high ground in Macomb, Miss., and it had room for several hundred passengers. "We offered the city the opportunity to take evacuees out of harm's way," said Amtrak spokesman Cliff Black. "The city declined."

So the ghost train left New Orleans at 8:30 p.m., with no passengers on board.[/Q]

This is the same guy who led the charge attacking the Feds?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/10/AR2005091001529_4.html
 
Dreadsox said:
Here is the 8 Term Congressman that saved his own shit, while people needed rescuing.



And to Michael Moore and several FYMers who kept asking "where are all those helicopters?" let's note that one was deployed to The Honorable Congressman Jefferson's recovery mission after the military trucks got stuck:


The Louisiana National Guard tells ABC News the truck became stuck as it waited for Jefferson to retrieve his belongings.

Two weeks later, the vehicle's tire tracks were still visible on the lawn.

The soldiers signaled to helicopters in the air for aid. Military sources say a Coast Guard helicopter pilot saw the signal and flew to Jefferson's home. The chopper was already carrying four rescued New Orleans residents at the time.

A rescue diver descended from the helicopter, but the congressman decided against going up in the helicopter, sources say. The pilot sent the diver down again, but Jefferson again declined to go up the helicopter.

After spending approximately 45 minutes with Jefferson, the helicopter went on to rescue three additional New Orleans residents before it ran low on fuel and was forced to end its mission.

"Forty-five minutes can be an eternity to somebody that is drowning, to somebody that is sitting in a roof, and it needs to be used its primary purpose during an emergency," said Hauer.

Coast Guard Cmdr. Brendan McPherson told ABC News, "We did have an aircraft that responded to a signal of distress where the congressman was located. The congressman did decline rescue at the time so the helicopter picked up three other people.

I have freinds and relatives from NOLA, middle class and upper class, who have not been allowed in to retrieve their belongings or even check on the status of their homes or apartments.

~U2Alabama
 
Vincent Vega said:
I think it's both.
Some are racists and so try to help white people before they help black people, others only care about who has the most money. Money is power.
And if you have enough money, your skin colour doesn't care.

But what about the white folks in 90% white St. Bernard Parish who were ignored while helicopters flew over them to NOLA, as Dreadsox pointed out?

~U2Alabama
 
Dreadsox said:
Hey Mayor.....Why didn't you put people on the AMTRAK train?

[Q]In fact, while the last regularly scheduled train out of town had left a few hours earlier, Amtrak had decided to run a "dead-head" train that evening to move equipment out of the city. It was headed for high ground in Macomb, Miss., and it had room for several hundred passengers. "We offered the city the opportunity to take evacuees out of harm's way," said Amtrak spokesman Cliff Black. "The city declined."

So the ghost train left New Orleans at 8:30 p.m., with no passengers on board.[/Q]

This is the same guy who led the charge attacking the Feds?

You can hear it comin' like a train out of control
Surely leaves you wonderin' exactly where your ticket goes
You scream to the conductor, but he's been deaf for twenty years
Hear the other people laughin' as he grinds through every gear

Climb to safety
After all that I've been through, you're the only one that matters
Climb to safety
You never left me in the dark here on my own
Climb to safety
Feel the water rising. Let me be your ladder
Climb to safety
I promise you'll be dry and never be alone


-Widespread Panic


~U2Alabama
 
Dreadsox said:
[Q]Sept. 13, 3005 — Amid the chaos and confusion that engulfed New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina struck, a congressman used National Guard troops to check on his property and rescue his personal belongings — even while New Orleans residents were trying to get rescued from rooftops, ABC News has learned. [/Q]


SO is it a black and white issue? Or is it a poor verses affluent issue?



Well not only that but it's a politician vs. the "average joe". Don't you think 90% or more politicians would do the same? Politicians have access to many things that even the richest of "average joes" have, and most abuse it.
 
Bama...

I was thinking of my wife's Uncle who was trying to get a flight out on Sunday morning before Katrina hit.

The airport would not fly him out 24 hours before teh hurricane.

THe car rentals were gone.

I am sure he would have jumped on that train, rather than be stuck in the downtown area in a ballroom filled with over $1,00 people.
 
Dreadsox said:
Bama...

I was thinking of my wife's Uncle who was trying to get a flight out on Sunday morning before Katrina hit.

The airport would not fly him out 24 hours before teh hurricane.

THe car rentals were gone.

I am sure he would have jumped on that train, rather than be stuck in the downtown area in a ballroom filled with over $1,00 people.

My god the mistakes I make when I am headache hell....

LOL

Jane Swift with her helecopter....I forgot about that.
 
i fail to see why it's so suprising that politicians, white or black, save their own asses first.

i also fail to see why its so hard that race and class are inextricably intertwined in the US, and that racism isn't so easy to identify as someone calling someone a name or professing to hate people of a group; there's a thing called institutional racism, and structural racism, which often go hand-in-hand with poverty and the absence of economic opportunity. these things also afflict the white lower classes, absolutely, but our unspeakably racist history has much to do with ghettoized poverty, more than i think your average white person wants to admit.

and i understand that. i don't think for a minute any person in FYM, no matter your race or ethnicity, considers themselves racist. racism (as opposed to homophobia and sexism) is officially loathsome. however, i don't think people are necessarily aware of their (unchosen) part in an inherently racist class system. by saying "it's not about race it's about class" essentially absolves a white person from racial responsibility. on an individual level, i understand that.

i'll take myself: i'm white as can be (Swedish/Irish mix), my family is realtively new to this country (everyone immigrated in the 20th century), i've never uttered a racial epithet in my life and find the N-word to be the word that makes me most uncomfortable, i've dated people of all different races, my thesis advisor was an african, and i abide by the loose, politically correct rules of language. however, there is no escaping the fact that my family, and thus myself, would *most likely* not be in the same economic and educational position if we were African-American. especially in my grandparents generation. no one was going to tell my grandfather that they wouldn't hire him because of the color of his skin; no one called him "boy;" he never looked around and saw that people of his skin color held low-level jobs; he never saw people with his skin color attacked with fire hoses and police dogs in Alabama. basically, he never had any limits placed on his worldview or sense of possibility and opportunity that, especially in the past, are placed upon anyone who isn't a white male. this isn't to say that people can't pick themselves up out of poverty; this isn't to say that there aren't black people born into immense privilege; this isn't to say that there aren't white people who feel locked out and shut out from the American Dream. it is to say that, in aggregate, history is stacked in favor of white people. there's always been a middle man for white people. white people have always looked out for their own (there's always been Affirmative Action for white people).

so that's where i'm coming from. i think, again, we're conflating individual experiences with historical narratives. the two might conflict, but one's individual experience does not then either negate a historical narrative nor create a new one.

thus, race and class -- *especially* in the South, the nation's poorest region -- often have much to do with the other.
 
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I can't believe that the issue of poverty in America has only come up since Hurricane Katrina. Do Americans walk around with their eyes and ears closed. It was no suprise to me in Australia that there are lots of people in USA living in poverty. Black and White. I don't know how they class America as one of the richest countries when Americans still don't get good health care or good education oppurtunities. And there debt is in the Trillions.
 
Aussie said:
I can't believe that the issue of poverty in America has only come up since Hurricane Katrina. Do Americans walk around with their eyes and ears closed. It was no suprise to me in Australia that there are lots of people in USA living in poverty. Black and White. I don't know how they class America as one of the richest countries when Americans still don't get good health care or good education oppurtunities. And there debt is in the Trillions.



actually, our public education system varies widely, but our university system is by far the best in the world. i agree with you about health care though, but for those who have it, it's also the best in the world.

only about half the country walk around with their eyes and ears closed. ;)

how is the poverty in Australia?
 
Aussie said:
Do Americans walk around with their eyes and ears closed.


Yes they actually do... untill something like this happens!!

In the area of poverty vs affluent, there's the other group who work and still can't take a hit like this.
I live in an apartment that didn't get destroyed and I have a job but the company I work for did not see fit to compensate their employees who lost work because the company was closed for a week.
You can watch this company every Sunday night supplying appliances and various other materials to their TV sponcered commercial interest to rebuild someones house. Which is admirable and I loved this show untill I started working for them.
And if you live in the hurricane damaged area don't expect them to honor your warranty or service protection, the memo's have already gone out. It's an act of God. Not covered.
 
Irvine511 said:
i fail to see why it's so suprising that politicians, white or black, save their own asses first.

i also fail to see why its so hard that race and class are inextricably intertwined in the US, and that racism isn't so easy to identify as someone calling someone a name or professing to hate people of a group; there's a thing called institutional racism, and structural racism, which often go hand-in-hand with poverty and the absence of economic opportunity. these things also afflict the white lower classes, absolutely, but our unspeakably racist history has much to do with ghettoized poverty, more than i think your average white person wants to admit.

and i understand that. i don't think for a minute any person in FYM, no matter your race or ethnicity, considers themselves racist. racism (as opposed to homophobia and sexism) is officially loathsome. however, i don't think people are necessarily aware of their (unchosen) part in an inherently racist class system. by saying "it's not about race it's about class" essentially absolves a white person from racial responsibility. on an individual level, i understand that.

i'll take myself: i'm white as can be (Swedish/Irish mix), my family is realtively new to this country (everyone immigrated in the 20th century), i've never uttered a racial epithet in my life and find the N-word to be the word that makes me most uncomfortable, i've dated people of all different races, my thesis advisor was an african, and i abide by the loose, politically correct rules of language. however, there is no escaping the fact that my family, and thus myself, would *most likely* not be in the same economic and educational position if we were African-American. especially in my grandparents generation. no one was going to tell my grandfather that they wouldn't hire him because of the color of his skin; no one called him "boy;" he never looked around and saw that people of his skin color held low-level jobs; he never saw people with his skin color attacked with fire hoses and police dogs in Alabama. basically, he never had any limits placed on his worldview or sense of possibility and opportunity that, especially in the past, are placed upon anyone who isn't a white male. this isn't to say that people can't pick themselves up out of poverty; this isn't to say that there aren't black people born into immense privilege; this isn't to say that there aren't white people who feel locked out and shut out from the American Dream. it is to say that, in aggregate, history is stacked in favor of white people. there's always been a middle man for white people. white people have always looked out for their own (there's always been Affirmative Action for white people).

so that's where i'm coming from. i think, again, we're conflating individual experiences with historical narratives. the two might conflict, but one's individual experience does not then either negate a historical narrative nor create a new one.

thus, race and class -- *especially* in the South, the nation's poorest region -- often have much to do with the other.


Hear, hear.. interesting post.

structural racism
 
U2Bama said:


I disagree with this.

~U2Alabama

Care to elaborate my friend?

Maybe we are on opposite roads for the first time in a while?
 
Dreadsox said:


Care to elaborate my friend?

Maybe we are on opposite roads for the first time in a while?

I do not think any of the elected officials should be "fired" for their lack of preparation for or lack of response to Hurricane Katrina. I've always been of the opinion that there are multiple parties, levels of government, to blame, and the individual responsibility of any one elected leader in this situation, in my view, does not warrant their removal from office (at least until the next election, at which time the voters may decide).

I will say this, though, as it seems that the issue with Congressman Jefferson is being dismissed because he's a politician and all other politicians would do the same; maybe they have the perception that they can because they're public servants, I don't know. Let's suppose you, Dreadsox, are an honorable military veteran and a public school administrator, two highly honorable positions of "public service." Let's also bear in mind that hurricanes have gone as far up the Atlantic seaboard as Rhode Island.

If one hit your area in MassaCHUsetts or wherever it is you live, do you think the military would escort you in there so that you could get your "belongings" out of your school, much less your home, and risk getting those huge trucks bogged down while you muddle around with your belongings for an hour or two?

~U2Alabama
 
[Q]Originally posted by U2Bama


I do not think any of the elected officials should be "fired" for their lack of preparation for or lack of response to Hurricane Katrina. I've always been of the opinion that there are multiple parties, levels of government, to blame, and the individual responsibility of any one elected leader in this situation, in my view, does not warrant their removal from office (at least until the next election, at which time the voters may decide).[/Q]

I believe that if it can be shown that the leadership did not enact their emergency plans, clearly outined by law, then they should be impeached.



I will say this, though, as it seems that the issue with Congressman Jefferson is being dismissed because he's a politician and all other politicians would do the same; maybe they have the perception that they can because they're public servants, I don't know. Let's suppose you, Dreadsox, are an honorable military veteran and a public school administrator, two highly honorable positions of "public service." Let's also bear in mind that hurricanes have gone as far up the Atlantic seaboard as Rhode Island.

If one hit your area in MassaCHUsetts or wherever it is you live, do you think the military would escort you in there so that you could get your "belongings" out of your school, much less your home, and risk getting those huge trucks bogged down while you muddle around with your belongings for an hour or two?

~U2Alabama

I do not think they would. I think it is an abuse of power that should not be tolorated.
 
Dreadsox said:
[Q]Originally posted by U2Bama


I believe that if it can be shown that the leadership did not enact their emergency plans, clearly outined by law, then they should be impeached


Is ineptness a reason for impeachment?
 
verte76 said:


I thought someone had to commit a crime to get impeached. Correct me if I'm wrong.



i seriously don't remember, and don't have time to dig it up, but does anyone remember why Andrew Jackson was impeached?
 
Irvine511 said:
i seriously don't remember, and don't have time to dig it up, but does anyone remember why Andrew Jackson was impeached?

You mean Andrew Johnson?

Post-Civil War, Congress was over 3/4 Republican and Johnson was a Southern Democrat who was only in office because the Northern Republican President, Abraham Lincoln, was assassinated. He would never have been elected, and Lincoln's conciliatory VP gesture backfired when he ended up dead.

Anyway, Congress, knowing full well it could override any veto that Johnson threw at them, passed a law called the "Tenure of Office Act," which said that Congress must approve all cabinet removals. This was solely to protect the Secretary of War, Edwin Stanton, whom Johnson vehemently argued with over the nature of the readmission of Southern states into the Union during Reconstruction. So Congress passed the law, Johnson vetoed it, and Congress overrode the veto. Hence, he was impeached for violating the "Tenure of Office Act" when, a year later, he removed Stanton.

The law was repealed in 1887, and that type of law was affirmed to be unconstitutional in a 1926 Supreme Court ruling.

Melon
 
I am not certain about the rules of the state, however, if the person is charged to perform the job, and they do not do it, isn't there a way to remove them from office?

Hmmm...
 
"Quote:
Originally posted by Aussie
Do Americans walk around with their eyes and ears closed. "



No, they just want to pretend like nothing is wrong, and live in a realm of .. illusionary bliss. Most of the time, it is a falls happiness that goes around, too....... (because most people aren't happy, they just think they are, or want to think they are......)

but that's only a .... few people.

(hahaha, large, sweeping statements like my own make me laugh :wink: )


I refuse to believe people are naive.
It's a choice.

We've got enough people who play victims in this country........ :grumpy:
 
Dreadsox said:


I believe that if it can be shown that the leadership did not enact their emergency plans, clearly outined by law, then they should be impeached.





I do not think they would. I think it is an abuse of power that should not be tolorated.

Dreadsox:

Did you go down to the Boston College campus today? I could have sworn I saw you on ESPN GameDay at the Florida State/BC game this morning holding up a sign that said "George Bush Doesn't Care About FSU" with little images of GWB and Kanye West on it.

And I am not familiar with the impeachment/recall laws for New Orleans or Louisiana.

~U2Alabama
 
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