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Old 09-15-2005, 09:30 PM   #16
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I believe the Mayor and Governor have done such a poor job that they should be fired from their jobs.
I disagree with this.

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Old 09-15-2005, 10:14 PM   #17
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Originally posted by Aussie
Do Americans walk around with their eyes and ears closed.

Yes they actually do... untill something like this happens!!

In the area of poverty vs affluent, there's the other group who work and still can't take a hit like this.
I live in an apartment that didn't get destroyed and I have a job but the company I work for did not see fit to compensate their employees who lost work because the company was closed for a week.
You can watch this company every Sunday night supplying appliances and various other materials to their TV sponcered commercial interest to rebuild someones house. Which is admirable and I loved this show untill I started working for them.
And if you live in the hurricane damaged area don't expect them to honor your warranty or service protection, the memo's have already gone out. It's an act of God. Not covered.
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Old 09-16-2005, 07:02 AM   #18
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Originally posted by Irvine511
i fail to see why it's so suprising that politicians, white or black, save their own asses first.

i also fail to see why its so hard that race and class are inextricably intertwined in the US, and that racism isn't so easy to identify as someone calling someone a name or professing to hate people of a group; there's a thing called institutional racism, and structural racism, which often go hand-in-hand with poverty and the absence of economic opportunity. these things also afflict the white lower classes, absolutely, but our unspeakably racist history has much to do with ghettoized poverty, more than i think your average white person wants to admit.

and i understand that. i don't think for a minute any person in FYM, no matter your race or ethnicity, considers themselves racist. racism (as opposed to homophobia and sexism) is officially loathsome. however, i don't think people are necessarily aware of their (unchosen) part in an inherently racist class system. by saying "it's not about race it's about class" essentially absolves a white person from racial responsibility. on an individual level, i understand that.

i'll take myself: i'm white as can be (Swedish/Irish mix), my family is realtively new to this country (everyone immigrated in the 20th century), i've never uttered a racial epithet in my life and find the N-word to be the word that makes me most uncomfortable, i've dated people of all different races, my thesis advisor was an african, and i abide by the loose, politically correct rules of language. however, there is no escaping the fact that my family, and thus myself, would *most likely* not be in the same economic and educational position if we were African-American. especially in my grandparents generation. no one was going to tell my grandfather that they wouldn't hire him because of the color of his skin; no one called him "boy;" he never looked around and saw that people of his skin color held low-level jobs; he never saw people with his skin color attacked with fire hoses and police dogs in Alabama. basically, he never had any limits placed on his worldview or sense of possibility and opportunity that, especially in the past, are placed upon anyone who isn't a white male. this isn't to say that people can't pick themselves up out of poverty; this isn't to say that there aren't black people born into immense privilege; this isn't to say that there aren't white people who feel locked out and shut out from the American Dream. it is to say that, in aggregate, history is stacked in favor of white people. there's always been a middle man for white people. white people have always looked out for their own (there's always been Affirmative Action for white people).

so that's where i'm coming from. i think, again, we're conflating individual experiences with historical narratives. the two might conflict, but one's individual experience does not then either negate a historical narrative nor create a new one.

thus, race and class -- *especially* in the South, the nation's poorest region -- often have much to do with the other.

Hear, hear.. interesting post.

structural racism
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Old 09-16-2005, 07:18 AM   #19
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I think Irvine hit the nail on the head.
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Old 09-16-2005, 07:41 PM   #20
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Originally posted by U2Bama


I disagree with this.

~U2Alabama
Care to elaborate my friend?

Maybe we are on opposite roads for the first time in a while?
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Old 09-16-2005, 09:52 PM   #21
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Care to elaborate my friend?

Maybe we are on opposite roads for the first time in a while?
I do not think any of the elected officials should be "fired" for their lack of preparation for or lack of response to Hurricane Katrina. I've always been of the opinion that there are multiple parties, levels of government, to blame, and the individual responsibility of any one elected leader in this situation, in my view, does not warrant their removal from office (at least until the next election, at which time the voters may decide).

I will say this, though, as it seems that the issue with Congressman Jefferson is being dismissed because he's a politician and all other politicians would do the same; maybe they have the perception that they can because they're public servants, I don't know. Let's suppose you, Dreadsox, are an honorable military veteran and a public school administrator, two highly honorable positions of "public service." Let's also bear in mind that hurricanes have gone as far up the Atlantic seaboard as Rhode Island.

If one hit your area in MassaCHUsetts or wherever it is you live, do you think the military would escort you in there so that you could get your "belongings" out of your school, much less your home, and risk getting those huge trucks bogged down while you muddle around with your belongings for an hour or two?

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Old 09-17-2005, 07:16 AM   #22
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[Q]Originally posted by U2Bama


I do not think any of the elected officials should be "fired" for their lack of preparation for or lack of response to Hurricane Katrina. I've always been of the opinion that there are multiple parties, levels of government, to blame, and the individual responsibility of any one elected leader in this situation, in my view, does not warrant their removal from office (at least until the next election, at which time the voters may decide).[/Q]

I believe that if it can be shown that the leadership did not enact their emergency plans, clearly outined by law, then they should be impeached.



Quote:
I will say this, though, as it seems that the issue with Congressman Jefferson is being dismissed because he's a politician and all other politicians would do the same; maybe they have the perception that they can because they're public servants, I don't know. Let's suppose you, Dreadsox, are an honorable military veteran and a public school administrator, two highly honorable positions of "public service." Let's also bear in mind that hurricanes have gone as far up the Atlantic seaboard as Rhode Island.

If one hit your area in MassaCHUsetts or wherever it is you live, do you think the military would escort you in there so that you could get your "belongings" out of your school, much less your home, and risk getting those huge trucks bogged down while you muddle around with your belongings for an hour or two?

~U2Alabama
I do not think they would. I think it is an abuse of power that should not be tolorated.
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Old 09-17-2005, 09:34 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
[B][Q]Originally posted by U2Bama


I believe that if it can be shown that the leadership did not enact their emergency plans, clearly outined by law, then they should be impeached
Is ineptness a reason for impeachment?
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Old 09-17-2005, 10:12 AM   #24
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Is ineptness a reason for impeachment?
I thought someone had to commit a crime to get impeached. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 09-17-2005, 11:28 AM   #25
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I thought someone had to commit a crime to get impeached. Correct me if I'm wrong.


i seriously don't remember, and don't have time to dig it up, but does anyone remember why Andrew Jackson was impeached?
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Old 09-17-2005, 11:40 AM   #26
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i seriously don't remember, and don't have time to dig it up, but does anyone remember why Andrew Jackson was impeached?
You mean Andrew Johnson?

Post-Civil War, Congress was over 3/4 Republican and Johnson was a Southern Democrat who was only in office because the Northern Republican President, Abraham Lincoln, was assassinated. He would never have been elected, and Lincoln's conciliatory VP gesture backfired when he ended up dead.

Anyway, Congress, knowing full well it could override any veto that Johnson threw at them, passed a law called the "Tenure of Office Act," which said that Congress must approve all cabinet removals. This was solely to protect the Secretary of War, Edwin Stanton, whom Johnson vehemently argued with over the nature of the readmission of Southern states into the Union during Reconstruction. So Congress passed the law, Johnson vetoed it, and Congress overrode the veto. Hence, he was impeached for violating the "Tenure of Office Act" when, a year later, he removed Stanton.

The law was repealed in 1887, and that type of law was affirmed to be unconstitutional in a 1926 Supreme Court ruling.

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Old 09-17-2005, 11:54 AM   #27
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I am not certain about the rules of the state, however, if the person is charged to perform the job, and they do not do it, isn't there a way to remove them from office?

Hmmm...
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Old 09-17-2005, 12:15 PM   #28
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You mean Andrew Johnson?


eep. yes. thanks.

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Old 09-17-2005, 12:37 PM   #29
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"Quote:
Originally posted by Aussie
Do Americans walk around with their eyes and ears closed. "



No, they just want to pretend like nothing is wrong, and live in a realm of .. illusionary bliss. Most of the time, it is a falls happiness that goes around, too....... (because most people aren't happy, they just think they are, or want to think they are......)

but that's only a .... few people.

(hahaha, large, sweeping statements like my own make me laugh )


I refuse to believe people are naive.
It's a choice.

We've got enough people who play victims in this country........
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Old 09-17-2005, 01:06 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


I believe that if it can be shown that the leadership did not enact their emergency plans, clearly outined by law, then they should be impeached.





I do not think they would. I think it is an abuse of power that should not be tolorated.
Dreadsox:

Did you go down to the Boston College campus today? I could have sworn I saw you on ESPN GameDay at the Florida State/BC game this morning holding up a sign that said "George Bush Doesn't Care About FSU" with little images of GWB and Kanye West on it.

And I am not familiar with the impeachment/recall laws for New Orleans or Louisiana.

~U2Alabama
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