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Old 01-31-2005, 06:42 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
it's nice that

all the white people in this forum can agree on something
Well, I'm not white, I'm Asian by descent - and I still agree with a lot of what's been said so far.
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Old 01-31-2005, 06:48 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
it's nice that

all the white people in this forum can agree on something
Its nice that you can always be counted on to participate in an intelligent discussion.

Do you have any productive comments, like based on the professor's research? or the newsweek article?

or are you really not that deep?
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Old 01-31-2005, 06:49 PM   #18
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


This is the attitude that got us here in the first place. NOT EVERYONE HAS THE SAME OPPORTUNITIES, that's the biggest lie people are selling here in America. There are inner-city children who are the offspring of several generations of poverty that will never have access to the proper education to make them prepared for college. Unfortuanately the majority of them are minorities
Sometimes that's a lie too though. ALL of my friends that are of a minority that go to my school were either a) adopted by families just like mine or b) from extremely wealthy families who can afford to send their kids to boarding school in Europe and college in the US, but they just so happen to be African or Asian. At my school, affirmative action isn't helping the people it was supposed to help. My friend who was adopted from Asia at birth got LOADS more scholarship money than I did (even though I worked to get a great GPA and got honors and such while she fooled around), just dropped out b/c she wasn't prepared for our college. The school wasted over $10,000 on her and she didn't even CARE about going to college, she just tried b/c her parents made her.
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Old 01-31-2005, 06:50 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
it's nice that

all the white people in this forum can agree on something


How did you determine that everyone who has replied is white?
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Old 01-31-2005, 06:51 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bono's American Wife




How did you determine that everyone who has replied is white?
Good question!

One of my friends always says to people " Never ASSUME things - it makes an ASS out of U and ME". It's extremely annoying when you hear it for the 50th time, but I must admit she has a point!
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Old 01-31-2005, 08:17 PM   #21
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I agree when BonoVoxSupastar says that not all children have the same opportunities. It was an eye opening and life changing experience when I took an independent studies sociology class in Brazil on employment trends. The class readings were geared towards US markets but I took them and applied, compared and contrasted them to Brazil.

It was a sad day in the 3rd grade when I knew my teacher was lying when she said, "If you put your mind to it and work hard enough, you can do anything. Maybe even be President."

Any way, getting back to Affirmative Action. Although race is still a huge issue, I have to agree with LivLuvAndBootlegMusic about some mintority students receiving scholarships they don't even need. Is there anyway to bring the FASFA equation into it? I know that at my University you can only receive so much in federal and university aid. I suppose a private scholarship follows different rules.

But, I have to contrast that with a Brazilian friend, who would be classified as black, and she says that there is no way she would have the same opportunities to study in Brazil that she has here in the US. She is currenlty getting a Ph.D. and just over thirty. That's unheard of even for white men in Brazil.

I guess what I'm saying is that we have made some progress in the US compared to other countries but we still have a long way to go.

Nice informative thread.
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Old 01-31-2005, 08:48 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic


Sometimes that's a lie too though. ALL of my friends that are of a minority that go to my school were either a) adopted by families just like mine or b) from extremely wealthy families who can afford to send their kids to boarding school in Europe and college in the US, but they just so happen to be African or Asian. At my school, affirmative action isn't helping the people it was supposed to help. My friend who was adopted from Asia at birth got LOADS more scholarship money than I did (even though I worked to get a great GPA and got honors and such while she fooled around), just dropped out b/c she wasn't prepared for our college. The school wasted over $10,000 on her and she didn't even CARE about going to college, she just tried b/c her parents made her.
I agree that affirmative action is not helping everyone it is designed to help. I have acknowledged and stated the fact that the system has been neglected and handled improperly.

But never did I state all minorities were stuck in a cylce of poverty. I stated that the majority in the cylce are minorities not the majority of minorities are in the cyle. Big difference.
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Old 02-01-2005, 04:05 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2utah2U
Any way, getting back to Affirmative Action. Although race is still a huge issue, I have to agree with LivLuvAndBootlegMusic about some mintority students receiving scholarships they don't even need. Is there anyway to bring the FASFA equation into it? I know that at my University you can only receive so much in federal and university aid. I suppose a private scholarship follows different rules.
Over here at Harvard, Larry Summers (boo! hiss! boo!) recently decreed that households with an annual income below $40,000 no longer need to finance their kids' education -- they can fund their Harvard education entirely with grants and loans. The expected contribution from households below $60,000 has also been slashed.
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Old 02-01-2005, 04:06 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
it's nice that

all the white people in this forum can agree on something
it's nice that

you can always be counted on to provide an appropriate ad hominem argument
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Old 02-01-2005, 04:29 AM   #25
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the Newsweek article implies something else though.

It is not saying that affirmative action is the problem....but that the universitites are not doing enough in their programs to provide the support necessary to get the students through the program.
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Old 02-01-2005, 05:24 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


But never did I state all minorities were stuck in a cylce of poverty. I stated that the majority in the cylce are minorities not the majority of minorities are in the cyle. Big difference.
What I meant was affirmative action doesn't work accross the board. I'm sure at larger universities, there are many students who are appropriately helped by affirmative action. At a school like mine, there simply aren't any minority students that come from a disadvantaged background, but there's still scholarships available at twice the amount of the academic merit scholarships for anyone who's not white, so when they print out the semi-anual presidents report, they can stick photos of the same African or Asian people on the cover and call us a "diverse" environment.
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Old 02-01-2005, 05:27 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2utah2U

Any way, getting back to Affirmative Action. Although race is still a huge issue, I have to agree with LivLuvAndBootlegMusic about some mintority students receiving scholarships they don't even need. Is there anyway to bring the FASFA equation into it? I know that at my University you can only receive so much in federal and university aid. I suppose a private scholarship follows different rules.
I wish. But even then, I'd rant b/c FAFSA still is not an entirely fair way to distribute funds. My dad doesn't pay for my college education, but all of HIS information goes on FAFSA and I'm left with another $10,000/year in non-Fed student loans.
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Old 02-01-2005, 06:45 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
the Newsweek article implies something else though.

It is not saying that affirmative action is the problem....but that the universitites are not doing enough in their programs to provide the support necessary to get the students through the program.
But what are they supposed to do? If you don't already have excellent writing, speaking and reasoning skills by the time you enter law school, you're in big trouble, and there's not much the school can do to help you out...

College is a little different, because it's generally recognized that people have more room to grow during those years. But really, instead of getting in over your head as a freshman at UC-Berkeley or UCLA, why not attend UC-Riverside for a couple years and then transfer?
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Old 02-01-2005, 07:16 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
it's nice that

all the white people in this forum can agree on something
You figured out everyone's ethnicity by their posts ?


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Old 02-01-2005, 08:28 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
the Newsweek article implies something else though.

It is not saying that affirmative action is the problem....but that the universitites are not doing enough in their programs to provide the support necessary to get the students through the program.
Creating opportunities and providing support are great things that should be done, but should be done in a color-blind manner.
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