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Old 11-22-2004, 08:06 AM   #76
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i won't answer the question about sodom and gomorah because i am not too liberal, although i agree it is against loose morals for heteros too.
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Old 11-22-2004, 08:23 AM   #77
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i won't answer the question about sodom and gomorah because i am not too liberal, although i agree it is against loose morals for heteros too.
I would agree that it is basically a warning against loose morals of any kind.
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Old 11-22-2004, 08:28 AM   #78
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In Catholicism, how does one arrive on a meaning from a passage of Scripture? It has been said that the Bible is not considered a final authority for Catholics. Do you turn to papal declarations? Statements from the priesthood?

I really am curious about this process.
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Old 11-22-2004, 08:55 AM   #79
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In Catholicism, how does one arrive on a meaning from a passage of Scripture? It has been said that the Bible is not considered a final authority for Catholics. Do you turn to papal declarations? Statements from the priesthood?

I really am curious about this process.
You're correct, the Bible is not a final authority for us. We will use it, but we will also use pronouncements from "ecumenical" (meaning called by the pope and attended by the bishops) Church Councils, starting with the first one in Nicaea in the fourth century and continuing through Vatican II. There are only two "infallible" papal statements, one from 1854 establishing the Immaculate Conception and one from 1950 establishing the doctrine of the Assumption of Mary. Some people think we "get it all from the Pope" or whatever, but the truth is that ex cathedra statements are actually rare. The pope can't change the Ten Commandments.
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Old 11-22-2004, 09:06 AM   #80
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I also have a question - and absolutely no offense is intended by it. Since Catholicism wants priests to remain celebate, I would hate to be a priest. Storing up human hormones for a lifetime without committing sexual sins - I find that humanly impossible. The small tiny percentage of priests who have committed pedophilia, do you think it's because they aren't allowed to marry women (or anybody, really)?
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Old 11-22-2004, 09:06 AM   #81
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unfortunately, this is why i left catholicism...they rule from the bible, tradition, and ecumenical. my Lord Jesus never mentioned a papal council, etc.
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Old 11-22-2004, 09:08 AM   #82
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and i also believe priests can be married--- for the celibacy, yes...but also for the life experience of having family and common troubles with which to identify. the Lord never said church leaders should not be married.
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Old 11-22-2004, 09:11 AM   #83
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That's interesting. I did vice versa, I converted from Protestantism to Catholicism. I don't have any trouble accepting the councils and such, if one does then it's time to become a Protestant. This happens frequently, and not without good reason. Reasonable people can disagree over this and agree that the important thing is a personal relationship with Jesus.
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Old 11-22-2004, 09:18 AM   #84
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That's interesting. I did vice versa, I converted from Protestantism to Catholicism. I don't have any trouble accepting the councils and such, if one does then it's time to become a Protestant. This happens frequently, and not without good reason. Reasonable people can disagree over this and agree that the important thing is a personal relationship with Jesus.
TOTALLY correct. Jesus makes all that stuff just gravy, which is cool, too. I call myself a Christian; that's all. The church I go to calls itself non-denominational.

(cool artwork, by the by)
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Old 11-22-2004, 09:23 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
There are only two "infallible" papal statements, one from 1854 establishing the Immaculate Conception and one from 1950 establishing the doctrine of the Assumption of Mary. Some people think we "get it all from the Pope" or whatever, but the truth is that ex cathedra statements are actually rare. The pope can't change the Ten Commandments.
Interesting. What makes these two statements "infallible" compared to other papal declarations? And what prevents a pope from changing the Ten Commandments?
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Old 11-22-2004, 09:43 AM   #86
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Interesting. What makes these two statements "infallible" compared to other papal declarations? And what prevents a pope from changing the Ten Commandments?
The pope is only infallible when he's speaking "ex cathedra", or "from the throne". There have only been two ex cathedra statements in the Church's history, the ones I mentioned. We acknowledge the role in Sacred Tradition of Scripture, and the Pope can't change Scripture, and that certainly includes the Ten Commandments.
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Old 11-22-2004, 09:53 AM   #87
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Is it up to the pope alone when he speaks "ex cathedra" or is there a formal process to go through (such as approval of cardinals)?



Arguable, the two statements mentioned do change Scripture to the extent that it revises the sin nature of Mary as a regular person.
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Old 11-22-2004, 10:03 AM   #88
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Originally posted by verte76
the important thing is a personal relationship with Jesus.
Certainly. Our differences probably mean little to God, and having a relationship with Jesus is how I keep the faith. Without a relationship with Jesus, I would've given up long ago over something stupid like a bad grade in math class.
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Old 11-22-2004, 10:06 AM   #89
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
Is it up to the pope alone when he speaks "ex cathedra" or is there a formal process to go through (such as approval of cardinals)?



Arguable, the two statements mentioned do change Scripture to the extent that it revises the sin nature of Mary as a regular person.
I'll be honest, I can't do justice to these questions. Questions about Mary are the hardest questions for me to answer. There are books that do a great job of explaining this. I hate to "pass the buck" but I never claimed I was an expert on Marian church doctrine. I'm still not. There are whole courses and books on this stuff. It is not simple.
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Old 11-22-2004, 02:08 PM   #90
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Here's a link to an article written by a very learned man about papal authority in general. I sure as heck could never have written this thing.

http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/...fm?recnum=2697
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