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Old 09-20-2006, 07:58 AM   #166
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I don't worship the "Islamic God" anymore than I believe in the "Mormon Jesus Christ".

I worship God. I believe in Jesus Christ who died to save me. Period.

I believe in the One God who created the world, who spoke to Abraham and Moses. Muslims share those beliefs about God as well, though beyond that we go in different directions.

Why must I insist that they worship a different God? Why couldn't I say we worship the same God, but they have misunderstood the truth about Him? Your argument is more likely to be made by Muslims, really since they may believe that we worship three different Gods and are not true monotheists. They could thus surmise that WE are worshiping a different God than that of Abraham.

I suspect we're dealing with an issue of semantics again.
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Old 09-20-2006, 08:04 AM   #167
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
That's interesting, but it doesn't really answer my question. Why would a Christian believe he worships the Islamic god in theological terms? Why doesn't he just convert to Islam?

Islam accepts Jesus as a prophet, but not as the Son of God.
Why would I convert to Islam when Islam does not offer Jesus as God and Savior?

That does not, however, mean that I believe Muslims are worshipping the theological equivalent of Zeus or Vishnu. They have just not accepted a certain truth about God that I have (i.e. that Jesus is not merely admirable prophet, but the Son of God and our source of salvation).
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Old 09-20-2006, 09:42 AM   #168
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Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean


I think he means that while Islam may be false (as A_W believes all religions to be), it is still a genuine religion as opposed to fake one. For example, if I were to start a religion of my Living Room Couch in a dishonest attempt to get tax exempt status that would be a false, i.e. fake religion.

Some people thing Scientology is a false religion, in that's really not a religion at all but masquerades as one to avoid paying taxes. Islam certainly does not fall into that questionable category.

It's semantics. Kind of like the word "ashamed"
I reda youir reply to my question. I didn't agree that it was a semantical difference, but had decided not to pursue it. However, since you brought it up, I'll be happy to oblige...

The difference between what you originally wrote, "It makes me ashamed to be a Christian" and what you meant, "The behavior of some Christians brings shame upon Christ" is much more than semantics. The two statements are nothing alike.

That being said, I'm glad you didn't mean the former. I've heard/read that statement too many times, and it always upsets me. So finally, I said something about it.
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Old 09-20-2006, 11:55 AM   #169
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Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean
Why would I convert to Islam when Islam does not offer Jesus as God and Savior?
This is the same reason I wouldn't attend a class and recite Muslim prayers just to show how multi-culti I can be.

Basically, the answer was in the question.
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Old 09-20-2006, 12:47 PM   #170
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
This is the same reason I wouldn't attend a class and recite Muslim prayers just to show how multi-culti I can be.

Basically, the answer was in the question.
Well since you haven't read the curriculum or everyone's post, I'll repost what Yolland said:


Quote:
Originally posted by Yolland

Did you look over the curriculum? It does not involve reciting prayers, in fact it explicitly says twice that you should not do that.
Facts, Facts, Facts! They make all the difference in this world. Use them.
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Old 09-20-2006, 02:08 PM   #171
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Facts, Facts, Facts! They make all the difference in this world. Use them.
I would be careful when making rude comments like this; the hand that you are using to point at someone else also contains 4 other fingers which could be pointing back at yourself.
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Old 09-20-2006, 02:40 PM   #172
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


I would be careful when making rude comments like this; the hand that you are using to point at someone else also contains 4 other fingers which could be pointing back at yourself.
This poster has been called out for lying, making accusations without facts, and ignoring what's written in black and white time and time again. I think he deserves to be called out on it.
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Old 09-20-2006, 03:49 PM   #173
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


This poster has been called out for lying, making accusations without facts, and ignoring what's written in black and white time and time again. I think he deserves to be called out on it.
You've avoided and denied facts when the truth was written down in plain view. So have I, and so has almost everyone at FYM at one point or another.

And come to think of it, that's a good reason for me to watch what I write, also.
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Old 09-20-2006, 04:05 PM   #174
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


You've avoided and denied facts when the truth was written down in plain view. So have I, and so has almost everyone at FYM at one point or another.
If you can't honestly see the difference then I'm sorry.
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Old 09-20-2006, 06:31 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


If you can't honestly see the difference then I'm sorry.
You're raking someone over the coals for things that you have done in this very thread.
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Old 09-20-2006, 08:01 PM   #176
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


You're raking someone over the coals for things that you have done in this very thread.
I really don't want to get in this here, for we're getting off subject and I've been asked to lay off, but as soon as you see me ignore facts that have been posted over and over, create lies about groups I don't like in order to back my bias without being able to back up those lies, and then turn it around when everyone calls me out on it to make myself the victim; then please point it out to me. Honestly I'm asking you to point these things out to me, but not after the fact, while I'm doing this. Then I'll agree with you and change my posting, but until then please don't ever compare our posts.
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Old 09-20-2006, 11:32 PM   #177
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


I really don't want to get in this here, for we're getting off subject and I've been asked to lay off, but as soon as you see me ignore facts that have been posted over and over, then please point it out to me. Honestly I'm asking you to point these things out to me, but not after the fact, while I'm doing this. Then I'll agree with you and change my posting, but until then please don't ever compare our posts.
I saw you do this during this thread, and I did call you out on it.

But since you asked me to call you out on it, I will - again.

I asked you a question - you ignored that question and answered something I didn't ask you. I reposted my question, and you still never admitted it, even though it was in plain view for everyone to see.
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Old 09-21-2006, 12:06 AM   #178
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I don't really understand what analogy you're trying to make, 80s. You and BVS disagree on whether the components of this curriculum constitute an endorsement of religion, and whether the information imparted by it is important enough to warrant being taught in public schools. Those disagreements stem from matters of opinion. Whether or not the curriculum entails "reciting Muslim prayers," however, is a matter of fact.
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Old 09-21-2006, 12:13 AM   #179
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland
I don't really understand what analogy you're trying to make, 80s. You and BVS disagree on whether the components of this curriculum constitute an endorsement of religion, and whether the information imparted by it is important enough to warrant being taught in public schools. Those disagreements stem from matters of opinion. Whether or not the curriculum entails "reciting Muslim prayers," however, is a matter of fact.
Yolland, you're right; you don't understand. This has nothing to do with BVS having a different opinion than mine. It's about a question I asked. BVS not only ignored that question but said I asked something different. Even when I reposted my question, BVS ignored the facts and persisted in avoiding my question.
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Old 09-21-2006, 12:59 AM   #180
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What does that have to do with ignoring facts? Are you talking about the prosperity thing? I think it was clearly implicit in his answer that he didn't consider the desirable aims of education to be limited to skills which enable an individual to make a living, which was the view of education your question entailed. I don't see how that relates to ignoring facts. If I asked you "You really think that American kids doing some unit on Asian history is going to teach them anything they'll need to prosper?" and you replied that the world would be a better place if we all understood more clearly where people not from our own little corner of it are coming from, I would get out of it that we had different ideas about what the proper aims of education are. Not that you were defiantly ignoring my question.
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