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Old 08-10-2004, 12:22 PM   #16
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
when a broadcaster has direct contacts to the "insurgents" and they run the demands it can put more people in danger, by cutting the propaganda element there is a clear possibility that the frequency of attacks will be reduced.
this seems very much like a ruse to me.

while bearing in mind that Iraq does not have the most developed regulatory infrastructure in place, it is troubling that the content and tone of a broadcaster or media outlet can so easily be utilized to engineer its shutdown, albeit temporary. this is especially true given that the signals of this same broadcaster are recieved in homes around the world, including the united states.

al jazeera's role in broadcasting civilian death numbers during the ongoing Iraqi conflict
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Old 08-10-2004, 01:04 PM   #17
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They shouldn't have shut down al-Jazeera. A true democratic government shouldn't worry about the press. It can denounce it, but why does it have to *ban* it? This seems excessive to me.
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Old 08-10-2004, 01:16 PM   #18
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Kind of a chicken and egg situation. Iraq is not a full democracy, yet giving free press rights may hinder its ability to become a full democracy - especially when it is surrounded and influenced by non-democratic countries.
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Old 08-10-2004, 01:25 PM   #19
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It has been claimed that none of Iraq's neighbors--not even Turkey--wants Iraq to become a democratic state. This is a heck of a hurdle if it's true. Of course the Turks are petrified of a Kurdish state.
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Old 08-10-2004, 07:27 PM   #20
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Originally posted by Diemen
So are you saying we should ignore these reports of torture and possible murder/forgery on the part of Iraqi officials, because overall good is being done?

Of course those doing great work deserve support - however, highlighting those abusing their power in no way diminishes that support.



According to whom, might I ask? The fact that these allegations haven't been proven wrong yet is awfully troublesome in my eyes.
How about having some "BALANCE" in media reporting. Unfortunately, only news that is negative is often reported, leaving a false impression about the situation in the country.

There are many people who would like to see the new government in Iraq fall apart and certainly lending support and space to unsubstantiated reports about abuses does not help things. It becomes a way insurgents and terrorist can try an discredit the new government among the population.

If someone came on the forum and claimed you had murdered 6 people, I would have to say that claim was probably untrue.

Lets remember that there are terrorist and insurgents throughout Iraq that are going to be using every tactic to defeat, disrupt, and discredit the new government in Iraq. If people have evidence of serious wrong doing, then lets examine it.

But lets not jump to conclusions which the media does all to often. One gross example is the so called JENIN MASSACRE of 2002. People claimed that the Israely Defense force murded 7,000 Palestinians in the space of a couple of days of fighting in Jenin. UN inspectors later went in and discovered that only 46 palestinian civilians had died and all were the result of accidents.

The new Government in Iraq should not have to disprove every unsubstantiated charge coming from Unknown(aka terrorist and insurgent) sources.
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Old 08-10-2004, 07:44 PM   #21
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If the Iraqi government thinks that al-jazeera is unbalanced, fine.
Just make a better newsstation (like bbc?)
If it's good people will listen to it.
But outlawing a mediastation like al-jazeera is counterproductive for democracy and stability in iraq
(see also my nytimes posting)
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Old 08-10-2004, 08:05 PM   #22
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ps if you want to judge yourself you can access al-jazeera at:
http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage
maybe it will be interesting to read the articles and find out if they were closer to the truth than we (at least i) expected
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Old 08-18-2004, 11:09 AM   #23
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Now all reporters have been banned from Najaf. No one can tell what war crimes are commited on civiians then.

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/com...,5478,10478772^401,00.html

Iraqi officers threaten reporters
By Stephen Farrell
18aug04

IRAQI police have threatened to kill every journalist working in the holy city of Najaf, where US forces are locked in a tense stand-off with Moqtada al-Sadr's Mehdi Army.

After a series of veiled warnings to leave on Sunday, two marked police cars pulled up at dusk outside the Sea of Najaf hotel on the outskirts of town, where Arab and Western journalists are staying.
Ten uniformed policemen walked into the hotel and demanded that the al-Arabiya, Reuters and AP correspondents go with them.

Journalists told them they were not there, but the policemen found and arrested Ahmed al-Salahih, the al-Arabiya correspondent, who the day before had been given a special exemption from the earlier eviction orders.

A uniformed lieutenant then told the assembled journalists and hotel staff: "We are going to open fire on this hotel. I'm going to smash it all, kill you all, and I'm going to put four snipers to target anybody who goes out of the hotel. You have brought it upon yourselves."

After pushing and shoving in the foyer, another policeman pointed his gun towards a member of the staff, but was disarmed by an Arab television journalist.

The police left, taking the al-Arabiya correspondent with them, drove 300m and fired warning shots.

The attempt to drive journalists from Najaf came as US marines - supported by the nascent Iraqi army - step up the pressure on Sadr, whose forces remain in control of Najaf's old city and sacred shrine to Imam Ali.

The Government of Prime Minister Iyad Allawi is acutely sensitive to the maelstrom that would erupt if the shrine were to be damaged, and the media crackdown may be an attempt to limit the negative publicity should it be hit during any military operation.

After US marine commanders last week issued a hawkish threat "to finish this fight that the Moqtada militia started", Mr Allawi moved swiftly to defuse alarm even among his own senior government officials, reassuring Iraqis: "The holy shrine will remain safe from all attacks that could possibly harm its sacredness."

Any military operation will be hampered by the fact that Sadr's hundreds of fighters inside the old city and cemetery have grown by about 2000, swelled by volunteers who marched through US lines at the weekend to act as human shields. Yesterday they paraded around the marble white-tiled courtyard inside the golden-domed mosque, effectively turning it into a giant stadium for rallies to the renegade Shia cleric.

All were unarmed but insisted they would pick up the guns of any Mehdi fighters killed in renewed clashes.

In the streets outside the shrine, terrified Iraqis hid inside their homes, with intermittent fire between the US tanks and Mehdi Army guerillas, who have planted huge booby traps on almost every street. Few ordinary Najafis will now stray beyond their doorsteps.

- From The Times
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Old 08-18-2004, 12:01 PM   #24
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Najaf is to Shi'ite Muslims what Rome is to Catholics. They'd better be careful not to attack this shrine. That would probably even piss off the Sunni Muslims. Some Sunnis have actually been sharing their mosques with Shi'ites. Of course alot of what happens depends on Sistani. If he's really sick, that's bad news because he is interested in stopping the fighting. There's another Grand Ayatollah in Iraq who's from Pakistan and very anti-American, and another one is not political, he's basically a "quietist". There is one other Grand Ayatollah in Iraq, but I forget what I read about him.
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Old 08-19-2004, 06:00 AM   #25
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So going into a holy site to remove a threat is wrong as opposed to going into a holy place and launching morters and RPG's out of it which is alright? (I know you didnt say alSadr was right but this is a point). When an armed group uses a holy site as a base of violence it becomes a lefitimate target, I wouldnt suggest bombing it for that would be overkill, I would think that a well planed attack to swiftly terminate those inside and return the control to the people of Najaf would be better, the rats have taken over the castle and the people are not happy. This cultural sensitivity over safety mentality can really help out anybody who wants to run a campaign against the Iraqi government, all you have to do is shoot from a mosque and you have immunity.
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Old 08-19-2004, 09:59 AM   #26
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Yes but just imagine the very idea of the Vatican being bombed. Maybe I'm a little more sensitive about that because I'm Catholic. Then transport yourself to Iraq, and imagine a big-time shrine, one of the most important not just in Iraq but in the entire Shi'ite Islamic world. It's unfortunate that Al-Sadr is exploiting the place. I think this is disgusting and stupid. It's a delicate situation, especially as it's just hit the wires that they broke the ceasefire and there's fighting there again.
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