Abu Abbas nabbed. Long sought terrorist, hiding in Baghdad.. - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

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Old 04-16-2003, 06:58 PM   #16
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Manson should be locked up because he is a psycho.


I believe he did not murder anyone.

He was not present at either of the Tate or LaBianca murder scenes.
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Old 04-16-2003, 07:29 PM   #17
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Originally posted by deep
Manson should be locked up because he is a psycho.


I believe he did not murder anyone.

He was not present at either of the Tate or LaBianca murder scenes.
True, he wasn't present - but the law does not let you out so easy. He was charged and found guilty of murder because he played a role in the planning.
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Old 04-16-2003, 08:05 PM   #18
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ouizy, I am just trying to get at what would drive terrorists to do certain things. We get Palestinian suicide bombers every so often, but I only wonder that if I experienced what the Palestinians did under Israeli occupation, whether I'd do the same as well. Certainly, the killing of an American jew is wrong. But what's the matter with a little historical curiosity? (rhetorical qn)

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Old 04-16-2003, 08:57 PM   #19
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Originally posted by the olive


I don't know about that. Should Charles Manson go free because he's a "former murderer"?
Abbas was also part of the PLO, meaning that the U.S. might have violated the Oslo accords in arresting him.

I'm not defending him; what I am saying is that this is not a clear example of Iraq harboring terrorists nor is this a clear example of a "victory" against terrorism. What should intrigue people is that, last year, a veteran terrorist committed suicide as Iraqi police forces were about to close in on him and arrest him.

This article falls under agitprop.

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Old 04-16-2003, 09:27 PM   #20
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What should intrigue people is that, last year, a veteran terrorist committed suicide as Iraqi police forces were about to close in on him and arrest him.
Really? Thats out of character for Sadaam's regime. He must of called Hussein a goat or something.
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Old 04-16-2003, 10:15 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ormus


Abbas was also part of the PLO, meaning that the U.S. might have violated the Oslo accords in arresting him.


Ormus

It's my understandint that the Us is not a party in teh oslo accords and thus doesn't ahve to abide by it because it was a US citizen he killed.

can anyone confirm this?
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Old 04-16-2003, 10:27 PM   #22
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Abbas: US trophy or reformed terrorist?

Diplomatic tussle over status of Palestinian leader caught in Baghdad

Richard Norton-Taylor and Conal Urquhart in Jerusalem
Thursday April 17, 2003
The Guardian

The fate of the former Palestinian guerrilla leader, Abu Abbas, captured by US special forces in Baghdad, was bitterly disputed last night with calls for his trial for terrorism despite his immunity from prosecution.
American military commanders hailed his capture as removing part of the "terror network" supported by Iraq and a victory in the "global war on terrorism".

However, British officials described him as a reformed individual who had lived quietly for years. "His capture is not a significant breakthrough on the terrorist front," one said.

Abbas was leader of the Palestinian Liberation Front which hijacked the Italian cruise liner Achille Lauro off Egypt in 1985. A disabled elderly American Jewish passenger, Leon Klinghoffer, was shot and thrown overboard.

The saga ended at Port Said in Egypt when the four hijackers, who had demanded the release of 50 Palestinians in Israeli prisons, freed the passengers. Shortly afterwards American warplanes intercepted an Egyptian plane taking the hijackers and Abbas to Tunisia, then his base. The fighters forced the plane to a Nato airbase in Sicily.

After a stand-off between US troops and Italian police, the hijackers were arrested but the then Italian prime minister, Bettino Craxi, let Abbas free. Italian courts later convicted him in absentia of planning the operation and handed down a life sentence.

Yesterday, the Italian justice minister, Roberto Castelli, said he would ask the US to extradite Abbas.

"We wanted to get Abu Abbas on our territory in order to put him on trial. Now a situation with a complicated jurisdictional character has been created because he was captured on Iraqi territory but he is under the control of American authorities," Mr Castelli said.

At the EU summit in Athens, Italy's foreign minister, Franco Frattini, said he was "extraordinarily satisfied" over the arrest of Abbas.

Mr Klinghoffer's daughters said they wanted Abbas tried in the US for piracy, hostage-taking and conspiracy.

The US justice department has said there are no grounds for extradition since Washington had dropped a warrant for his arrest. And in 1998, the Israeli supreme court declared Abbas immune from prosecution, referring to the Oslo peace accords and the Palestinian-Israeli interim agreement signed three years earlier by the then Israeli prime minister, Yitshak Rabin, and Yasser Arafat. It was signed by President Clinton as a witness.

However, an official from the US state department was quoted yesterday by Reuters as saying that agreement only concerned arrangements between Israel and the Palestinian Authority. "It does not apply to the legal status of persons detained in a third country," the official said.

Saeb Erekat, a spokesman for the Palestinian Authority, said the US had no right to arrest Abbas and should set him free immediately.

"We demand the United States release Abu Abbas. It has no right to imprison him. The Palestinian-Israeli interim agreement signed on September 28 1995 stated that members of the Palestine Liberation Organisation must not be detained or tried for matters they committed before the Oslo peace accord of September 13 1993," Mr Erekat said.

Israeli sources said they had not been involved in the arrest of Abbas - who has renounced violence - and had given him permission to travel to the Gaza Strip in recent years because they believed he was no longer a threat.

Abbas' wife, Reem, said she was surprised at her husband's detention and referred to the amnesty agreement. In an interview with the al-Jazeera Arab satellite channel, she said she hoped he would be released "because he is not a party in this war".

She said she had talked to him on the telephone from her home in Lebanon a few hours before he was captured.

In a statement issued in Lebanon, the PLF said it held America and Britain responsible for the safety of Abbas and demanded his immediate release. It called on the UN, the Arab League and the International Committee of the Red Cross to act "to put an end to the aggressive practices of the American occupation forces".

Abbas had twice tried to flee Iraq through Syria but was turned away, according to Palestinian officials quoted by the Associated Press agency.

Officials close to Abbas said he had tried to flee to Syria after the fall of Baghdad last week without informing Syrian authorities.

He travelled to Mosul and then to the Syrian border but was recognised turned back by Syrian officials.

Several days ago, Abbas again went to Mosul and on to the Syrian border to try to leave Iraq after Palestinian guerrilla factions based in Damascus tried to intercede with the Syrian government on his behalf. He was again turned away.

Special report
Israel and the Middle East
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Old 04-16-2003, 10:35 PM   #23
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Not to play devil's advocate [ok I am] but the CIA supposedly knew he was there. Why not go kill him or get him in '91? He was in the Gaza Strip at one point. So far, we may or may not have killed Saddam, we haven't found illegal weapons, we have egg on our international face. But what's this? We've caught a terrorist! HAHA!!!!!!

If we can find a terrorist in Iraq who committed a crime 15 years ago that killed one person, why can't we find a terrorist in Afghanistan that committed a crime 18 months ago that killed 3000?

I'm glad we caught the guy but let's not forgot about the terrorist were are supposed to be going after.
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Old 04-16-2003, 11:27 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by sharky


If we can find a terrorist in Iraq who committed a crime 15 years ago that killed one person, why can't we find a terrorist in Afghanistan that committed a crime 18 months ago that killed 3000?

I'm glad we caught the guy but let's not forgot about the terrorist were are supposed to be going after.

The skeptic in me would say because if we got Binladen in Afghanistan the war on terror would have been a success and pretty much completed.

Rumsfeld, Wolferwitz, Perle needed BinLaden to justify Iraq attack.

Carl Rove wanted 2002 election to be about Terror War. In spring of 2002 he instructed all party officials to keep talking points on Terror and away from corporate corruption, unemployment, etc.

BinLaden is the Administrationís salvation.
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Old 04-17-2003, 04:01 AM   #25
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the olive:

do you think the society can forgive people who did something wrong and accept that they did something wrong?

Should we judge the president of the USA because he was driving with alcohol xx years ago?

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Old 04-17-2003, 08:11 AM   #26
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To make my point clear: of course we should forgive him and give him his 2nd chance!

TAZ quote to Abu Abbas:

Quote:
USA got Terror Grandpa:
long retired palestinensian terrorist Abu Abbas was arrested in Baghad where he was growing Kiwis - USA enthusiastic

Abu Abbas, former chief of the PLF who organized 1985 the hijacking of the Achille Lauro, where the US American Jew Leon Klinghoffer was shot and thrown overboard, was arrested by US special troops.
US officials said that this was another vicory against a Iraq supported terrornetwork."

Abu Dabbas lived for 17 years in Bagdad and gew Kiwis at his farm.

There are no terroristic attacks know in the last years of his PLF organisation.

Abbas tried to get out of Baghdad several times in the last weeks.

Palestina officials demand the release of Abbas because of the israli-palestinensian amnesty-deal from 1995.
Abbas was twice in the palestinensian terretory in the last 10 years tollerated by Israeli officals
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Old 04-17-2003, 09:04 AM   #27
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But Klaus, just because we can forgive him does not mean he shouldn''t be punished. He killed a person. People repent and people can be forgiven but that doesn't change the fact that they commited a crime. I don't care what the guy thinks now -- he was conficted of a crime and should do his time.

I agree with deep about bin Laden. No one cares about what happened in 1985 anymore. The scary thing what happens if 15 years from now they catch bin Laden and people are too focused on something else to care.
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Old 04-17-2003, 09:38 AM   #28
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Sharky: right, but punishing someone who a) allready found out that what he did was wrong and b) might be protected from the amnesty-deal from 1995...
..at least i wouldn't celebrate it as a big strike against internatinal terrorism connections of iraq. If those were the strikes agianst international terrorism worth starting a war, were will it end?

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Old 04-17-2003, 02:39 PM   #29
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People are we being serious here?

Are we actually saying that someone committed a heinous crime and was convicted of it, but because he realized what he did was wrong should be forgiven?

I am very sorry to inform you that this is the year 2003 and we have laws and that is not the way things work.

How many thousands of examples are there of people comitting crimes and running from the law. If you are convicted and caught - you do the time.

If Roman Polanski ever step foot on US soil, he would be arrested and thrown in jail. And if anyone here thinks that there are not organizations currently searching out former Nazis to be brought up on war crime charges, guess what - you are wrong and that was over 40 years ago.

This man plotted a hijacking and as Deep pointed out:

Quote:
Italian courts later convicted him in absentia of planning the operation and handed down a life sentence.
If this person is caught - especially by an ally of the country who sentenced him, he should be imprisioned. Just because you are able to escape justice for a while and grew a bit older, this does not mean you have accepted responsibility for what you have done, nor does it mean you have served the time the law has told you to serve.

foray: I understand historical curiosity, but when you weigh down the question with biased opinion, the curiosity part kind of fades away. As far as this comment:

Quote:
We get Palestinian suicide bombers every so often, but I only wonder that if I experienced what the Palestinians did under Israeli occupation, whether I'd do the same as well
I can only infer from this that you are saying if you lived under the conditions some of the Palestinians do, you yourself would be a terrorist and blow yourself up in order to kill innocent women and children who would be your targets.

This makes me sick.

Empathize with the Palestinians, fine, questioning whether you would kill innocent people or not, uh help is needed.

Sharky:

Quote:
If we can find a terrorist in Iraq who committed a crime 15 years ago that killed one person, why can't we find a terrorist in Afghanistan that committed a crime 18 months ago that killed 3000?
This my friend is a very good point.

Klaus:

As much as I do not believe this is a "blow to the Iraqi supported terrorist network." I do beleive this man lived in Iraq as it is a haven for people like him.

As far as:

Quote:
To make my point clear: of course we should forgive him and give him his 2nd chance!
Why would you forgive this man - because time has gone by? I think we should see if the family of the lost Leon Klinghoffer would want to forgive and forget this? The notion is absurd.

Had the US forces found ANY terrorist or on-the-lam criminal hanging out in Baghdad - they would have arrested him. American, Palestinian, whomever. It was the right thing to do and this man should be brought to justice, in Italy, the US, whereever.
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Old 04-17-2003, 03:41 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by ouizy
If Roman Polanski ever step foot on US soil, he would be arrested and thrown in jail. And if anyone here thinks that there are not organizations currently searching out former Nazis to be brought up on war crime charges, guess what - you are wrong and that was over 40 years ago.
The news has caught up with you fast.
Today Simon Wiesenthal has announced that after 50 years he'll stop searching for escaped Nazi criminals. He's 94 now and has caught more than 1,000 Nazi criminals during his lifetime. Given his age it's understandable that he's stopping, but I agree that these crimes should never age, nor be forgotten.

However...:

Quote:
Had the US forces found ANY terrorist or on-the-lam criminal hanging out in Baghdad - they would have arrested him. American, Palestinian, whomever. It was the right thing to do and this man should be brought to justice, in Italy, the US, whereever.
Then why has the USA retracted his warrant a few years ago? I agree that Italy has the right to arrest him once he sets foot on Italian soil. But why is the USA suddenly again interested in this, when they saw no reason to catch him a few years ago? Especially since nothing special has happened to him the past few years (AFAIK that is).

Just wondering...

C ya!

Marty
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