Abortion advocates misguided on Alito?

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MaxFisher

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I was watching the network news on ABC last night and the Alito appoinment was the obvious opening story. A major section of the report had to so with Alito's support of a law which would require women to inform their husband/boyfriend that they were choosing to abort. A few abortion rights activists were interviewed and expressed what an extremist opinion this was.

Does a father have a right to know?

Is Alito's position really that extreme?

ABC News ran a poll that day which showed 72% of Americans believe the father should know.
 
The question before Alito was: Is a requirement of spousal notification (not consent) before an abortion unconstitutional?

Answering "no" seems to be reasonable and not at all "extreme".
 
As I recall, one of the problems raised by the dissenting opinions was, What about the case of battered wives? It's not an improbable question. A colleague of mine fled from her abusive husband several years ago after finding out she was pregnant (which is not infrequently a psychological "wakeup call" for battered women), and while she herself never wanted an abortion (and didn't have one), she remembers vividly the fear of how it might redouble his efforts at pursuit if he found out about the pregnancy (he never did). She had to live on the run between shelters for the better part of a year and a half, with an infant in tow for the latter part of it.
 
Does anyone know-
Is Alito calling for women to get "permission" from their husbands to have an abortion, or just to "inform" them that they are having an abortion?
Very different things.
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:
i'm not against abortion, per say. but if i was with someone and they got an abortion without telling me first, i'd be crushed.

i understand the "battered wife" argument... but there needs to be some sort of comming round we can reach on that issue.



and if a man gets a vasectomy

should the wife be notified?


or even if a women gets birth control pills
should the husband be notified?
 
BorderGirl said:
Does anyone know-
Is Alito calling for women to get "permission" from their husbands to have an abortion, or just to "inform" them that they are having an abortion?
Very different things.

it was inform (notify)

like with a 14 year old girl
the parents are to be notified

this was his basis
the wife is like the 14 year old

and the husband is the parent
 
deep said:


it was inform (notify)

like with a 14 year old girl
the parents are to be notified

this was his basis
the wife is like the 14 year old

and the husband is the parent

Considering that, upon conception, a father is responsible for the child and the child gains full rights of inheritance (showing two different aspects of legal status), it does not seem unreasonable to promote communication between spouses.

Drawing an analogy with parents and their children was likely meant to be inflammatory, not reasoned thinking.
 
nbcrusader said:




Drawing an analogy with parents and their children was likely meant to be inflammatory, not reasoned thinking.


are you familiar with Alito's decent

and the basis for it?
 
what if a woman purposefully sabotages her birth control and doesn't tell her husband and gets pregnant.

could he be free of any legal obligation to the child if he can prove that she was deceitful?

this sort of happened to a friend of mine ... rumor has it, he was getting ready to leave the relationship and then suddenly, she's pregnant! so they got married. and he never went to film school.
 
Interesting, that, nbc. I try not to view it as convenience when we look at the various views, but responsibility is deemed very much there in a wanted, though (for example) teen pregnancy. We rally and raise our fists that young boys and men need to learn responsibility. Does this change though, if the pregnancy is not wanted by the woman? Is his responsibily and right or obligation altered by this fact? I really dont want to go back to the issue of whether this is an issue for the woman's body or for the unborn foetus, but I guess I ask is there an answer which fits all?
 
nbcrusader said:


Considering that, upon conception, a father is responsible for the child and the child gains full rights of inheritance (showing two different aspects of legal status), it does not seem unreasonable to promote communication between spouses.

Drawing an analogy with parents and their children was likely meant to be inflammatory, not reasoned thinking.



So you have said Alito does not execute reasoned thinking?

I do agree also about his ruling on uzis and machine guns.

He thinking is flawed, he should be rejected.

Alito voted to uphold it as a judge on the U.S. 3rd Circuit Court of Appeals. He argued that the law did not put an "undue burden" on women, and he did so based on his reading of a standard set by Justice Sandra Day O'Connor in earlier cases that tested whether teenage girls must notify their parents before getting an abortion.

But when the Pennsylvania case reached the Supreme Court, O'Connor and the court majority rejected Alito's view and characterized the "spousal notification" law as an insult to married women.

"Women do not lose their constitutionally protected liberty when they marry," the court said in an opinion written in part by O'Connor. It is "repugnant to our present understanding of marriage" to permit the state "to enable the husband to wield an effective veto over his wife's decision," the high court said.

O'Connor set a middle course. She said states could regulate abortion so long as they did not put an "undue burden" on a woman's decision to end a pregnancy. She voted to uphold regulations that required doctors to wait 24 hours after a pregnant woman asked to have an abortion. She also upheld rules that required teenage girls to notify a parent before seeking an abortion.

Alito said.

"The Pennsylvania Legislature could have rationally believed that … discussion prior to the abortion" between a wife and her husband might prompt her to rethink her plans to obtain an abortion, he said. "We have no authority to overrule that legislative judgment even if we deem it unwise or worse," he concluded.

The case was appealed to the Supreme Court, and it set up a showdown in 1992 over abortion and the fate of Roe vs. Wade. To the surprise of many observers, the court, despite the recent addition of two Republican appointees, issued a resounding 5-4 opinion that pledged to uphold the right of women to choose abortion.

The court's opinion also upheld the 3rd Circuit's ruling and threw out the "spousal notice" rule. O'Connor made clear she found the Pennsylvania ruling offensive to women.

"A state may not give to a man the kind of dominion over his wife that parents exercise over their children," she said in the joint opinion for the court.
 
Sadly, the article either mischaracterizes O'Connor's statements or O'Connor is wrong.

The law dealt with notification, not consent. The law did not place any veto power in the hands of the husband.

But I can see how this gets miscommunicated as many have asked (here and elsewhere) whether the law covered notice or consent.
 
Alito voted to uphold it as a judge on the U.S. 3rd Circuit Court of Appeals. He argued that the law did not put an "undue burden" on women, and he did so based on his reading of a standard set by Justice Sandra Day O'Connor in earlier cases that tested whether teenage girls must notify their parents before getting an abortion.


Alito said.
"The Pennsylvania Legislature could have rationally believed that … discussion prior to the abortion" between a wife and her husband might prompt her to rethink her plans to obtain an abortion, he said. "


it was "parental notification"




O'Connon was not wrong

Alito was/is wrong.
 
Last edited:
deep said:



it was "parental notification"




O'Connon was not wrong

Alito was/is wrong.

Notification is permissible (by SC precedent).

Consent is not.

O'Connor created a new standard when she decided to treat notification by the same standard as consent.
 
nbcrusader said:

O'Connor created a new standard when she decided to treat notification by the same standard as consent.



thus, one can see how gender (and other things, like race, ethnicity, class, sexual orientation) can influence how one understands and interprets the law.

hence, gender matters.
 
again Alito's basis was "parental consent"

that is what he said

therefore:

the wife is the 14 year old

and the husband is the parent

in his decision.
 
Alito looked to permissible restrictions on abortion.

Notification is permissible.

So said O'Connor.

Until she changed the standard.

It has nothing to do with "parental consent".
 
nbcrusader said:


Notification is permissible.

So said O'Connor.


for parents of 14 year olds

Alito voted to uphold it as a judge on the U.S. 3rd Circuit Court of Appeals. He argued that the law did not put an "undue burden" on women, and he did so based on his reading of a standard set by Justice Sandra Day O'Connor in earlier cases that tested whether teenage girls must notify their parents before getting an abortion.


if you want notification

why not for ALL the so-called fathers?
 
nbcrusader said:
Even better.

The "so called fathers" of pregnant minors may face other legal charges.

one reason I am open to 'parental consent"

but back to the spousal notification

a father is responsible for the child and the child gains full rights of inheritance (showing two different aspects of legal status)

based on your arguments here

ALL FATHERS should be notified, not just husbands.
 
With both my examples, the husband is the presumptive father.

If you want to address the issue of ALL FATHERS, you are opening a different can of worms that will affect a multitude of existing laws and regulations.
 
Funny how the other three cases ruled on by Alito got missed in the discussion.....

In 3 of 4 cases, Supreme Court nominee Alito voted on the side of abortion rights.

If Alito holds a different view on that issue, his vote could shift the balance of power on the court. His four abortion cases include:

• A 1991 challenge to a Pennsylvania law requiring married women to notify their husbands before seeking an abortion. The court struck down the restriction. Alito dissented.

• A 1995 challenge to a Pennsylvania law that required women seeking to use Medicaid funds to abort a pregnancy resulting from rape or incest to report the incident to law enforcement officials and identify the offender. Alito provided the decisive vote striking down the abortion restriction.

• A 1997 challenge to a New Jersey law that prevents parents from suing for damages on behalf of the wrongful death of a fetus. Alito ruled that the Constitution does not afford protection to the unborn.

• A 2000 challenge to New Jersey's ban on so-called partial-birth abortions. Alito struck down the law based on a recent Supreme Court decision.
 
nbcrusader said:
Funny how the other three cases ruled on by Alito got missed in the discussion.....

You'd be correct. I do wonder what the Religious Right would say to that, though?

Melon
 
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