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Old 02-12-2007, 11:40 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally posted by Liesje
I personally have never met someone uber-pro-life that's ever adopted, fostered, or even so much as volunteered working with kids. Until I see the ultra-conservatives actually practicing what they preach, it's enough to make me side against them just because I'd rather not be lumped with a bunch of hypocrites trying to legislate issues that shouldn't go any farther than one's own household.
You've never met me. I've worked with lots of kids over the years.

There are many many Christian organizations that do the very things you said you've never seen. Shall I list all the Christian organizations that feed the starving children of the world? Or how about the shelters and missions run by Christians that shelter and feed homeless children? Or how about the missionaries who dedicate their lives to helping children in need? Shall I go on? It would be a very long list, I assure you.
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Old 02-12-2007, 11:41 PM   #122
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I'd like to ask this one more time:

What's more important, a person's comfort, or a potential human life?

I think most of us can agree that a human life is of more importance than an embryo's, but what about simple convenience?

EDIT: Sorry, I didn't see Trev's answer before I posted this. I thought no one saw this.
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Old 02-12-2007, 11:43 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally posted by trevster2k


I don't think the decision to have an abortion by a woman is based on convenience, it is based on many many factors including acceptance by family & friends, quality of life for child, quality of life for woman, financial situation,etc.

I would think that it is an incredibly devastating decision for a woman to arrive at regardless of the situation.

It's not like going and getting your teeth cleaned.
Good, thoughtful answer.
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Old 02-12-2007, 11:44 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


I'd have to say "yes". I can't give any other answer and maintain faithfulness to my position.

Is it beyond hellish and horrific that people are raped? Yes, without a doubt! I honestly would want to kill someone if he raped a freind or loved one. But I cannot condone killing an innocent child in the womb to prevent the innocent mother from having to carry the baby.

Now what will happen to me - will it now be said that I minimalize rape, that I don't have compassion for rape victims?
Sorry but i completely disagree. Leaving the woman aside for the moment - how do you think this child would feel knowning it is the end result of a violent henious crime? That his "father" raped his mother and she was forced to carry him otherwise he woud not exist. Do you not think this person would be fucked up.

Also, not that i believe in "crime genes" but i think rapists should be castrated rather then spreading their seed into the next generation.
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Old 02-12-2007, 11:45 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally posted by LemonMelon




What's more important, a person's comfort, or a potential human life?
I would say a potential human life is more important.

Of course the debate has never been as simple as comfort vs. potential human life.

I don't think you'll find a pro-choicer in the world that would argue that a woman should get an abortion because morning sickness is making her "uncomfortable."
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Old 02-12-2007, 11:45 PM   #126
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I wonder all the time what my ex-friend, who quotes the Bible religiously and never says God in vain, yet is having her seventh abortion...would say. How she justifies her actions, when she is using it as a birth control method and it is making me SICK!

I am no longer speaking to her because of this.
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Old 02-12-2007, 11:46 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem


Only by someone with the complete lack of intelligence to understand the gravity of what you said, not what you didn't say. In which case you did, anyway.

This isn't about upgrading or downgrading the rape or incest case, I know that. I am not going to misrepresent what you have answered and that is given the black and white of your belief of when life begins, the circumstances do no change that a life has begun and you feel that life should be preserved. I am not talking about the crime which lead to it.
Thank you so much for understanding and not misinterpreting what I said. That means a lot.

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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem

What I want to ask you, 80s, is that you feel so strongly about this, that you feel it should be legislated that a termination cannot occur, and you think this needs to be applied to everyone? Everyone, regardless of whether they intellectually, morally, or religiously agree or not?
Yes, because I believe so strongly that my view is correct, and if it is correct -that abortion is murder- then public or private opinion should not matter.
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Old 02-12-2007, 11:46 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean

I don't think you'll find a pro-choicer in the world that would argue that a woman should get an abortion because morning sickness is making her "uncomfortable."
That's not exactly what I meant by "comfort". I was more referring to financial issues, the potential that something could go wrong during the pregnancy, or even the horrific pain involved.
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Old 02-12-2007, 11:48 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally posted by trevster2k

I personally find the concept of an abortion abhorrent but I fully support the right of a woman to be allowed to make that decision for herself and have it be a legal option for her. For me, it has nothing to do with the issue of life, it's about personal freedoms.
This is the kind of nuanced stance that all too often "pro-lifers" refuse to allow their opponents, and "pro-choicers" all to often fail to articulate.

The whole "pro-choicers are baby killers" rhetoric has no place in constructively addressing the issue and fails to accurately reflect where those who support choice are coming from.
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Old 02-12-2007, 11:48 PM   #130
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I think the argument for people using an abortion for comfort, or birth control is a VERY weak one. Sure there may be a few, but a few out of 3 billion or so is not really cause for using that as a main point of how pro choice people are just slutty bitches sexing and aborting at will. Serously - its a moot point.
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Old 02-12-2007, 11:49 PM   #131
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I'm not understanding the comfort thing one bit...
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Old 02-12-2007, 11:50 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally posted by dazzlingamy


Sorry but i completely disagree. Leaving the woman aside for the moment - how do you think this child would feel knowning it is the end result of a violent henious crime? That his "father" raped his mother and she was forced to carry him otherwise he woud not exist. Do you not think this person would be fucked up.
I know without a doubt that the person would experience severe emotional trauma. There is no doubt in my mind. And I am not minimalizing that at all.

But I also believe that people can receive healing, not only of the body, but also of the emotions, soul and mind. And as a Christian, I don't mind telling you that Jesus Christ heals.

Quote:
Originally posted by dazzlingamy
Also, not that i believe in "crime genes" but i think rapists should be castrated rather then spreading their seed into the next generation.
I agree with you.
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Old 02-12-2007, 11:51 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally posted by dazzlingamy
I think the argument for people using an abortion for comfort, or birth control is a VERY weak one. Sure there may be a few, but a few out of 3 billion or so is not really cause for using that as a main point of how pro choice people are just slutty bitches sexing and aborting at will. Serously - its a moot point.
I would have to agree.
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Old 02-12-2007, 11:52 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


I actually respect you more for this view because at least it makes some logical sense to me.

And this kind of view also means that abortion will always remain legal because almost nobody will agree with you.
Thank you very much for your understanding, and not jumping all over me.
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Old 02-12-2007, 11:57 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean


This is the kind of nuanced stance that all too often "pro-lifers" refuse to allow their opponents, and "pro-choicers" all to often fail to articulate.

The whole "pro-choicers are baby killers" rhetoric has no place in constructively addressing the issue and fails to accurately reflect where those who support choice are coming from.
Well, too many people make the leap from pro-choice to pro-abortion just as some make the leap from anti-war to pro-terrorist or anti-death penalty to pro-murderers. You get the gist of what I am saying.

I don't think people should have to explicitly say they don't support abortion. No one is out there encouraging women to use abortion as a means of birth control. I thought that would be common sense but I'm wrong.

But your point is well made, Sean.
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