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Old 11-21-2003, 03:59 PM   #1
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ABC''s The Kennedy Assassination: Beyond Conspiracy

Did anyone have an oppertunity to to watch this program? I did not but I have done much research on the Kennedy assassination. I believe that there was more than one gunman. The ABC report backs up the Warren Commission in concluding that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. I just can not buy it.

In the larger picture, the death of JFK marks the end of the American public's trust in the United States government. (LBJ, Viet Nam, Nixon) Could this program have another agenda?
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Old 11-21-2003, 04:11 PM   #2
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i saw this, as well as a program on the discovery channel the night before

before i saw these i thought there had to be more than one gunman, but after watching these shows, especially the discovery channel one, i tend to believe oswald acted alone

but i admit to not knowing everything about the assassnation, so i am open to some reasonable explanations
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Old 11-21-2003, 04:22 PM   #3
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I have spent more time than I care to admit researching the Kennedy Assasination. I will come back to this thread when I am able. The best book that is written on the Oswald did it alone topic is written by Gerald Posner, and it is called Case Closed. It is well worth the read even if you do not believe Oswald did it alone, it is Well written and researched, and I believe one of the best books ever to get into the history of Lee Harvey Oswald. I have a Dozen others I could recommmend some good, some not so good.

I just got home from being operated on and will be back to chat about this when I can.
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Old 11-21-2003, 04:24 PM   #4
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i am looking forward to it

i hope your snake is doing well
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Old 11-21-2003, 04:30 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chizip
i am looking forward to it

i hope your snake is doing well
I would not wish this on ANYONE!!!!!!
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Old 11-21-2003, 06:29 PM   #6
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Hope you feel better Dread.

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Old 11-21-2003, 07:36 PM   #7
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I think they were right on. I don't see how anyone can continue to doubt that it was just Oswald. Like they said at the end, people just have to have the conspiracy so that it will make sense rather then seeming random and chaotic. They just can't accept that a little no one could kill a great and loved president for selfish reasons. It was all about wanting that attention and to make a mark on the world.

I just don't see how you can still hold onto a conspiracy theory after watching that program. Of course, before I watched this I could care less about this whole debate and had never formed an opinion. Still, makes perfect sense to me, and I can handle that a little nobody killed a president all by himself.
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Old 11-21-2003, 08:27 PM   #8
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While I don't doubt that a "nobody" such as Lee Oswald could have killed the president that is not where my conspiracy thoughts come from. I question why there was a need to cover everything up. The autopsy photos for example. Also, why did the president's brain go missing? You don't just lose the president's brain, right?

Anyway, I hate to admit it but I have an 11 by 14 color copy still from the Zapruder film on my bedroom wall. Yes it is strange and morbid but it is one of the frames that was not originally printed in Life magazine. (it shows an exit wound at the back of the skull)

I don't know, it's not impossible that LHO did this himself but I believe it to be improbable.

*anxiously awaitng Dread's educational post *
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Old 11-21-2003, 11:31 PM   #9
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Well...there are days.....like today when I find myself believing the conspiracy end of things.....

And there are the other days when I believe he acted alone.
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Old 11-22-2003, 09:26 AM   #10
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I thought I would tell everyone to check out FRONTLINE on WGBH. They have a three hour special focussing only on the life of Oswald.

Alos, this link to yahoo is an interesting article. It is one of the few places that I have seen mentioned that the Secret Service driver practically stopped the car. This allowed the fatal head shot. Many shows never look at or mention this fact that the protocal was for the vehicle to speed up when the President was in danger, not stop, which is what it did. Now that can be human error......but in my opinion....it was THE fatal error that allowed the Fatal shot to be made by Oswald or another gunman.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...k_conspiracy_5

There are some video and sound clips as well.
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Old 11-22-2003, 11:19 AM   #11
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With the number of shows broadcast this last week alone, I have the suspicion that the Kennedy assassination conspiracy theories are more a product of the media than anything else. It gives them a fascinating product to sell.
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Old 11-22-2003, 01:52 PM   #12
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While I agree with you NB.....that there are people who are trying to make a $$$..... There is something not quite right about so many things surrounding this case.
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Old 11-22-2003, 03:45 PM   #13
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Oswald was an ex - FBI agent , who was in FBI , always stays there
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Old 11-22-2003, 06:58 PM   #14
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The ABC report on Thursday about the matter essentially proved to me that Oswald was the only one. Scientist have used computer models to recreate the whole incident. People find it hard to believe that a single person acting alone could kill the President of the USA, but given the right circumstances, it is possible, and it actually happen to Reagan to but he survived the attack.
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Old 11-22-2003, 08:59 PM   #15
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For those who hate the Bush Family

[Q]Kennedy: The George Bush Connection
by Mark Turner
THE KENNEDY FILES
FILE #3

1992 by markturner@writeme.com Mark D. Turner
P.O. Box 1955, Bluefield, WV 24701-6955
The Outer Limits BBS - (540) 322-2529



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This file may be freely distributed but Mark D. Turner retains all copyrights. Do not make any changes to this file, please. Comments and suggestions for future issues are appreciated.



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THE GEORGE BUSH CONNECTION
In this day and age when some people can not even name the president of the United States, it is not the least bit surprising that most have no knowledge of George Bush's possible connections to the Kennedy assassination. The relationship has its roots in Bush's "former" employment with the CIA. As CIA agents have been quoted in the past, you never really leave the Agency.


THE CIA DID IT!
Many researchers place the blame for the murder of John F. Kennedy on the CIA. The easiest way to clear the mafia or other non-governmental groups is to look at the massive cover-up that the government has participated in over the years. If mafia boss Carlos Marcello had really ordered the hit, could he have had the CIA and FBI suppress so much evidence from the public for so long? Could he have had the normal security lowered for the assassination? Could he have had the Washington D.C. phone system knocked out of order for an hour right as the shooting took place? Could he have convinced the Warren Commission to release such an idiotic official version of the murder? Of course not. The set-up and cover-up had to take place INSIDE of the government, not outside.

The CIA seemed to have the most (and best) motives for the elimination of Kennedy. During the Eisenhower presidency, the CIA came up with a plan to invade Cuba at the Bay of Pigs. The thought was that the citizens would hear of the attack and join in to overthrow Castro. Former Cubans were trained by the CIA and the U.S. government fur- nished them with weapons and transportation. Since it was near the end of his administration, Eisenhower put the plan on hold so the new president would not have to deal with any problems which might arise from the mission.

Upon entering office Kennedy decided that the plan's requirement of 16 planes would obviously reveal American backing of the plot. The plan had hoped that American involvement would not become known to the world. The use of 16 planes would make American backing obvious to everyone. Kennedy cut the number of planes down to six. As the date of the invasion neared, Kennedy decided against the plan and announced in the press that the United States would not invade Cuba with the military.

The CIA went ahead with the plan and quickly found that things were not going as they had hoped for. They asked for more planes but were told they would have to be held back until the forces captured a Cuban airport. Then, the planes could be sent and the explanation would be that they were captured planes which the rebels had put into use. The CIA-backed rebels never got that far and were quickly defeated. The citizens of Cuba never joined them in the fight. The CIA, as has been revealed in books by participants, blamed Kennedy for the defeat. The books and papers reveal a deep hatred for the imagined betrayal.

Later, Kennedy formed a panel to keep him informed as to what was going on in Vietnam. American involvement was still low at this point but Kennedy was worried. He has been quoted as saying he could not justify sending American boys half-way around the world to fight communism when it existed just south of Florida in Cuba. One of the panel's members was Allen Dulles, head of the CIA. Kennedy caught him in various lies and fired him. The fact that the CIA had kept training Cubans for another invasion until Kennedy finally sent in FBI agents to break up their camps and confiscate their weapons was another reason for the dismissal. Other high-ranking CIA officials were fired, too, including the brother of Dallas' mayor. Kennedy changed the operating procedure of the CIA so they would have to get approval for any future covert actions from Robert Kennedy.

Due to persistent problems with the CIA and their continual involve- ment in matters which were not their concern, Kennedy declared that he was going to shatter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter them to the winds. Even former president Truman, who had created the CIA, expressed concerns about their behavior. Kennedy was apparently going to leave their destruction until after the next election but did start withdrawing troops from Vietnam, much to the dislike of the CIA. One of Johnson's first moves after he replaced Kennedy as president was to increase American involvement in Vietnam. It seems he owned an airline company that was contracted to fly troops back and forth across the Pacific Ocean, but that is another matter.

Later, E. Howard Hunt, on behalf of the CIA, faked cables to implicate John F. Kennedy in the assassination of South Vietnam's president, Ngo Dinh Diem. So, it is apparent that the CIA disliked Kennedy and had the means to set-up and cover-up the assassination. Now, it is known that they convinced the Warren Commission that the Soviet Union and Cuba had murdered Kennedy. They scared the members into believing that revealing this to the American public would result in a nuclear war in which millions would be killed. To further this theory, they produced fake evidence showing that Oswald had visited the Soviet and Cuban embassies in Mexico to arrange the killing and escape. The head of the CIA operations in Mexico has since admitted that no such real evidence ever existed. A Warren Commission investigator has admitted that they acted to save millions by sacrificing one man (Oswald).

The job was not too hard to pull off since former CIA-head Allen Dulles was a member of the Commission. He was the only one to attend more than half of the hearings and was also in charge of deciding what intelligence data was seen by the other members. President Johnson didn't seem to find it strange to appoint the man that Kennedy had fired to investigate his hated former boss' murder.


SO HOW DOES BUSH FIT IT?
Although he denies it, there is a growing body of evidence that George Bush was working for the CIA as early as 1961. Many feel he was actually recruited during his college days (which is when he joined the Skull and Bones Society, a front for the Illuminati). Bush claims to have been working for his own oil company during the early 1960's. It would make for a convenient front since he claims to have been off- shore on drilling rigs for weeks at a time. The rigs were located all over the world. Was he really on the rigs or was he running around on CIA business? The various biographies of Bush are all sketchy on this phase of his life.

During this time, Bush had moved to HOUSTON, Texas. His wife was, of course, BARBARA. His oil company was ZAPATA Off Shore Co. (which he named after a communist Mexican revolutionary who would invade towns and murder every man, woman and child. Bush also named an earlier oil company after Zapata, a questionable choice for a hero). The code name for the Bay of Pigs invasion was Operation ZAPATA! A former high-ranking Pentagon official, Col. Fletcher Prouty, was the man who secured two Navy ships for the operation. He has told of seeing the two ships repainted to non-Navy colors for the invasion. The ships were given the new names HOUSTON and BARBARA!

Of course, maybe the names were just coincidences, but Bush was living in Houston with Barbara and running Zapata in 1961 during the planning of the invasion. The name "Operation Zapata" was top secret and known only to a very few.

In 1977 and 1978, the government released nearly 100,000 pages of documents on the Kennedy assassination. One which slipped out by mistake was from the FBI to the State Department written a few days after the assassination. The State Department was worried that anti- Castro groups in Miami might stage another invasion of Cuba in the aftermath of the JFK murder. The FBI informed them that they had questioned both pro-Castro and anti-Castro groups and could find no information about such plans. The memo went on to state that the information was passed along to "George Bush of the Central Intelli- gence Agency" the day after the assassination.

Why was the information passed along to the CIA? Probably because of their previous invasion attempt and other planned attacks. Why George Bush? Probably because he was involved in previous invasion plans!

When the document first surfaced no one paid much attention to it. When the presidential campaigns began for the 1980 election then the name George Bush caught researchers' eyes. When asked about the memo, Bush denied working for the CIA at the time. As evidence built that it was indeed him, the CIA claimed it was a different George Bush although their policy had always been to neither confirm nor deny a person's employment. The other George Bush was tracked down by reporters and said that although he did work for the CIA at the time, he was never involved in that sort of work. The interesting point is that the CIA did not bother to contact the other George Bush and inform him that reporters might soon be calling. Other evidence surfaced that showed the George Bush mentioned in the document was actually George H. W. Bush and had the same address as the famous George Bush.

Another Bush connection involved George de Mohrenschildt, a rich Russian oil man who lived in Texas when Lee Harvey Oswald settled there after his trip to the Soviet Union. De Mohrenschildt was a long-time CIA agent and quite possibly served as a CIA control officer for Oswald. The Warren Commission described him and his wife as being the two people friendliest to Oswald at the time of the assassination. De Mohrenschildt's son-in-law told the Warren Commission that if any- one had helped with the assassination it was most likely de Mohren- schildt. De Mohrenschildt was also the man who moved Oswald to Dallas.

Shortly before the House Select Committee on Assassinations started meeting in the late 1970's a new doctor appeared in de Mohrenschildt's town. De Mohrenschildt started seeing him and quickly became mentally unstable. His wife convinced him to stop seeing the doctor. The doctor then moved away and left a false forwarding address. The very day the Committee tried to contact de Mohrenschildt about testifying, he was found dead of a gun shot wound. His personal address book was found and it contained the entry "Bush, George H. W. (Poppy) 1412 W. Ohio also Zapata Petroleum Midland." Bush's full name is George Herbert Walker Bush which matches the initials given and his earlier oil company was named Zapata Petroleum Corp. Why was his name in de Mohrenschildt's book? Is "Poppy" his CIA code name?

It is known that in the early 1960's de Mohrenschildt made frequent trips to Houston, which was the location of Bush's home. He told friends he was visiting the Brown brothers, who were close friends and financial supporters of Lyndon Johnson. CIA documents reveal that during the planning phase of Operation Zapata, de Mohrenschildt made frequent trips to Mexico and Panama and gave reports to the CIA. His son-in-law told the Warren Commission that he believed de Mohren- schildt was spying for the planned Cuban invasion.


A QUESTION OF CHARACTER
When Bush was picked to be director of the CIA in 1976, he testified to Congress that he had never worked for the CIA before. Of course, it did not make much sense to appoint a director who had no such back- ground but Congress approved him anyway. Now it would seem that Bush committed perjury in his congressional testimony.

George Bush was apparently high enough in the CIA to help plan the Bay of Pigs invasion. It would probably be safe to assume that he even named the operation and its two ships. Considering the hatred that the CIA felt toward Kennedy over their failed mission and Bush's involvement in that same mission, it would be quite interesting to know what Bush's feelings toward John F. Kennedy really were and what his full role in the assassination investigation was.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Further information on the George Bush connection may be obtained from Mark Lane's "Plausible Denial" (Thunder's Mouth Press) and James "Bo" Gritz's "Called To Serve." Lane's book is an excellent accounting of the CIA's involvement (especially E. Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis). Gritz (a 1992 presidential candidate) tells about many of the CIA's questionable ventures and also about his trips to Laos to attempt rescues of American POWs who are still held by Vietnam.
[/Q]

I am not saying I believe this.....

De Mohrenschildt was close to Oswald. That has been well documented by other author's writings on the topic of L.H. Oswald. It is interesting that he apparently was friends with Mr. Bush.


http://www.angelfire.com/ky/ohwhy/Bush.html
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